Financial Independence with Real Estate: What To Do Next? with Chris Roberts
Chris. Thank you for joining us today.
Thank you, Taylor. I appreciate the opportunity to share with your audience, man.
It’s been a great conversation. We’ve been talking for about half an hour so far, and I know our listeners are going to learn so much from you in our relatively short time today for our listeners out there who don’t know about you and what you do.
Could you tell us a bit about your background and then we’ll dive, first into the topic of, reaching financial independence, especially from, your own expense.
Yeah, of course, thank you for the opportunity to share. My, my story is dynamic in the sense that I, wasn’t born into, or say a real estate career, which is what a lot of people that are in my space today.
Maybe their family members, father, mother had a real estate business. I started working my way through the furniture business, working in warehouses for 15 years. It was on my own at a very young age and then progressed through that to eventually become a wholesaler for a very large company and developed a really good sales and marketing company from there.
And that put me in a position to start investing in real estate after playing in the stock market for a bit. And I realized that if I was going to scale my business and grow exponentially, I let’s say retire. Whatever that means for most people or have a sense of freedom, or even just in general escape.
The grind of let’s say a commission sales career, which is daunting. It’s a really difficult profession. When you do it for a long period, it’s being a human resource manager, it can be daunting cause you’re. With people and a lot of their challenges over and over again. So I knew that it would wear on me eventually.
Like it would be pretty challenging to stay in that field for the rest of my life. And so I had to create that let’s say financial freedom or other vehicles, and that’s what led me down the multi-family real estate path. And we built Sterling rhino capital and here we are.
Awesome. I love it. And you have so much experience and we were talking before we hit record and you reached financial independence, and then we’re thinking about, okay, what do I do now?
And we were talking about that and I want to help our listeners, get into that headspace of, okay. Many of them have not maybe reached their freedom number, but okay. Once you get them, what do you do? And you did it, as a relatively young guy, certainly sooner than you planned on.
So let’s dive into that and learn about your experience.
A hundred percent. And thank you, Taylor, for asking a question here. Here’s something that I want your listeners to think about a little bit is, it’s we have this way of seeing the world business experiences. And I think sometimes you look at people that maybe have wealth or money and you think, oh, I want to be there.
And you wonder what it’s like, and it’s this, visions of grandeur and sitting on a beach and all this. And I think you have to plant the seeds in your mind very early on what your life is going to look like in 5, 10, 15, 20 years. And that’s important because. When you reach, let’s say a financial freedom position and I’ll just call it financial freedom.
Cause that’s the catchphrase you hear everybody talk about is you realize, okay, I have some money let’s say, or I don’t have to work, let’s say but what does that mean for me? It’s not fulfilling to just go and fish every day or go golf or whatever. Not that I do that. I’ve never done that for a long period.
So you have to be thinking what is, what am I going to do to keep myself busy when I get to that point? So you have to almost plan your second life. If you will. I would encourage people to start thinking, okay, I’m going to get to this first year where I have. I have saved it. I’ve lived below my means.
I have created multiple streams of income. I have worked two or three jobs. I did not keep up with the Joneses and I reinvested my car payments into buying real estate. And that was my story. I saved up car payments for seven years and use that money to buy my first foreclosed property.
And you do all these things for 5, 10, 15, 20 years, however long it takes you, and then be thinking about your second life. And that second life is. Maybe you aren’t going to retire. Of course, that’s what we say but now you’re able to live the life of your dreams. You can give back, you’re able to volunteer.
You’re able to help animals. If you love that stuff, you’re able to focus on your health. Maybe you want to learn more about being a vegetarian or a vegan or whatever it may be. And now you have the freedom to do that. And what’s amazing. Once you get to that again, let’s call it financial freedom place.
Your mind becomes far more clear, but if you are in that place where you have a lot of time on your hands, you’re going to have to fill it. And so I always encourage people and I say this as you’re building your wealth, it’s very important to fill your downtime with busy work, continually educate yourself.
Don’t just watch TV shows all the time. Don’t just sit around on the sofa for two hours. Do you have two hours? Continually educate yourself. And again just be thinking about your second life, because it’s one thing to get to a level of freedom or wealth. But it’s a whole nother thing to maximize that time once you’re there.
And if you’re fortunate enough to get there at a young enough age, you’re going to have a second life, especially with science these days. We might all be live until we’re 110, 120, who knows. And you’re just going to find that the journey is fraught with challenge and adversity generally because achieving anything worth having is usually, but you want to be thinking about what you’re going to do once you reach that level.
And what’s interesting is it has nothing to do with money. Once you make enough money to buy things that you think you want and that fulfills you. You don’t because you’re like I don’t need another car. I don’t need a bigger house. I don’t need a Rolex watch that stuff. Doesn’t fulfill me.
What fulfills me is giving back and watching other people grow and learn from the challenges that I’ve gone through and watching them change their financial future. And we don’t charge for this stuff. We just enjoy helping and watching and sharing. And so I think if you can focus on that second life, it’s going to help put things in perspective for you.
I know that was a long-winded answer and I’d love to dive in a little more if you have questions, but no, I love that.
I think that gets at. Where we, I think society can get it wrong. You mentioned keeping up with the Jones is and oftentimes I think we’re told we need to try to seek, like happiness but nobody’s happy all the time.
We need to seek fulfillment and satisfaction and try to get, give back to others because for yourself as you mentioned, Probably have a lot of life left ahead of you and how are you going to be satisfied for the rest of your life? If you just go sit on a beach? Other, there aren’t that many other people at the beach and eventually you’re just, looking this on and you get sunburned or whatever there are other things to do.
And I think that’s important for folks to bear in mind. Especially many of our listeners, I hope for their sakes will reach their financial independence if that’s what their goal is. But what are you going to do after? I think is a big question that we often don’t ask ourselves for, to a meaningful.
Absolutely. I think in general, it’s one thing to say that, and of course, you could use that as a driver. Maybe it’s what motivates you to get to that point is, oh I want to retire. I’m tired of my job or whatever it is, but there’s much more life after that. And it shouldn’t just be about, I want to retire.
I don’t want to work. I want to make a million dollars. Your life has to have to, has to have more depth than that. And what I mean by that is oftentimes you have to check yourself and see. Am I grateful for what I have today? My thankful am I getting off track, are there people in my life that are taking me off track?
You know what’s the end game for me. Where am I going and how am I going to get there? And we talked a little bit before the show about business and planning and strategy and how do you scale and all that. It’s all just spreadsheets and teamwork. It’s, it’s not rocket science, it’s spreadsheets and teamwork.
And. Man or woman hours, right? It’s people hours, it’s us grinding. It’s and then you get there. So I don’t want to simplify it cause it’s, it is a little complicated. But again, if you just put the work in implant correctly you can control your destiny. Let’s put it that way. Forget early retirement or financial freedom.
You can control your destiny for sure. I love that.
Financial Independence with Real Estate: What To Do Next? with Chris Roberts
And just to sum it up, it sounds like my understanding here for you as you hit that point where. Live on your passive cash flow and not have to work anymore, but you realize that, and then didn’t take your foot off the gas and that’s, your choice to keep, working through your dates.
Nice. Nice. I love it. I wanted to make sure we touch on that. We also, there’s so much more we could discuss here. I’d like to take a, make a quick pivot to, challenging deals that you’ve done in the past and lessons that you’ve learned because I think we learn the most from our own mistakes, but hopefully, we can learn from the mistakes trip ups or challenges that others have gone through.
Let’s dive into it and get into some of those challenges.
Yeah, that’d be great. There are so many great quotes and I’ll chop them all up. Cause I’m never good at re repeating exactly what they say, but there’s a couple of ones by the Navy seals and they talk about embracing the suck. And then there are a couple of other ones that talk about, everything you want is on the other side of fear, Jack Canfield.
And there are some other ones that just really talk about just diving in. And I think. For me with all the challenges that come up with, whether it’s a sales and marketing company, software company, real estate even my first like fix and flip where I was swinging hammers. And, I w I would drag my trailer behind my rig and I would go out there after work, and I’d worked for six hours at the property drive home, I’d sleep for five hours.
Get up, go to work all day, drag my trailer behind me and go do it again for six weeks. And then I had mine. Flip, rental, Burr, whatever, and did it over and over again. And I remember my wife saying, gosh, like this is crazy. The hours you’re working, I thought, yeah. But it has to get.
It just has, who else is going to do it? I’ve got to do it. And my hands, literally they hurt so bad. I could barely move my fingers. I remember from all the hammering and the chipping and the, but the thing is though is you don’t know what you’re capable of until you face that adversity. That challenge like climbing a mountain, I’ve climbed a bunch of volcanoes, deep, steep, dive, scuba dive, and all that crazy stuff.
If you don’t challenge yourself, you’re never going to know. How do you overcome these challenges with deals? We face crazy challenges. I’ll give you one quick example. We had an opportunity where there were no digital records on the property. We had to manually calculate all of their manual documents that were stacked up in the office.
I’m talking hundreds and hundreds, not thousands of files. I have pictures. I’ll share this. I’m writing. If you’re writing a book about it, I’ll share pictures of the office. You wouldn’t even believe it. It’s crazy. 35 years of records. Somehow by the time we were done after 450 man-hours and 11 months of negotiating, we closed the deal and got agency debt on that deal.
And all these records were manual. How did you do it? You did it by being on the computer till. Darn near every night three different people. Cross-referencing data points, trying to figure out why these books were missing these numbers. Where did they go? Bank statements on and on? We didn’t say oh, we can’t do it.
Let’s give up on the. And it was painful. We didn’t hire a bunch of CPAs and drag them through the mud and spend thousands and thousands of dollars. We wanted to understand this process in case we ever came across it again. So it’s that grunt work that makes you stronger and allows you to get through those adversities.
We have a deal that we’re working on. It’s not a live deal. We’ve worked on it, but it’s, three properties, all kinds of challenges buying a non-for-profit. With a land lease that gives us tax exemption. There are all these crazy twists and turns. But it’s a smoking opportunity, right?
And now you’re talking tons and tons of hours of legal phone calls and back and forth and all that. But you get through it by just literally chipping away one rock at a time. And that’s, you have to be able to put in the work. So some of these challenges are just extremely time-consuming and you want to give up, you want to give up, you look at it and go, there’s gotta be an easier deal.
There’s gotta be another way. But if you don’t go through those challenges that you don’t know, you’re never going to learn them. And then the next time you come across a good opportunity, you may dive right in and knock it out a lot quicker and more efficiently because you went through the pain and suffering the first time versus just running for the easy stuff.
One last thing, there’s a sale. There’s this common term in sales, on a sales floor. Let’s say where they say, oh, you’re just ordering to. You’re not a sales professional. You’re an order taker. And it’s true. You get people that just, oh, there’s a customer. I just, oh. And if they don’t want to just buy something then I’m gonna move on to the next person.
No, if you spend some time with somebody, you could earn their business. They might buy a ton more from you. That’s earning someone’s business, not just being an order taker. Same thing with deals you want to earn that deal. You want to put in that time for your investors, or are you just going to pass because you don’t want to put in.
And I think some folks who use the phrase or the term becoming a deal architect rather than a deal find, or you want to put those deals together. Yeah. So how does it? How do you combine that, put in the work with scale the business, because at the end of the day, we only all only have 24 hours in a day, but to scale, you need to, magnify that or amplify that and get more hours in there?
So is it a matter of, hiring more people or building systems or how do you turn those lessons and those challenges from, the hard work into more results rather than just a. Knowing how to spend your own time a little more efficiently.
Yeah. That’s a very good question.
And. For the passive loss strategy listeners, I would say it’s not an easy one to answer because it’s relative to one specific skill set and mindset. For example, a lot of people get into this space thinking I’m going to go and let’s call it space being, let’s say being a multi-family syndicator, even a business owner, I want to go open a business or I want to start a real estate business and they think they need to do it all on there.
They think, okay, I know what I want and I know what I know. So I’m going to go out, I’m going to hustle it out. I’m going to figure it out. I don’t want to share the money or whatever the profits, but most business owners you ask any coffee shop owner or ups store owner, whoever they’re working 70, 80, 90 hours, it’s insane.
And then they hire people as they can. You can’t just hire 10 people because you can’t afford to. And that’s at bootstrapping, with multi-family. How do you scale? How do you grow? First of all, you have to be willing to give darn near all of your free time to your craft. If it’s building out a multi-family syndication business then you have to put in every free moment you have, because as soon as you find that first opportunity, or let’s say you’re raising capital and you’re doing some other things on a deal and you earn your way onto an opportunity there’s going to be other players on the team that have specific skill sets.
Now you may jump on with someone and build out a team. You may work hard and others gravitate toward you to build out your team. But I would highly encourage you to identify what I call your value proposition or your specific skill set could be a capital raiser could be an asset manager, could be a deal finder.
Maybe you’re in a hot market. And that in itself is a value proposition because you live in a market that has a lot of deals and brokers. And now all of a sudden you’re putting other pieces around you to grow. It’s not. A pizza shop, right? You go in and maybe you start out being the cook and the server, but you still have to have a cleaner and all these.
Puzzle pieces, right? So you have to be thinking, where are my strengths? How can I allocate my strengths to maximize the time? How am I putting enough of my time in? And then do I have other folks that are willing to put the time into, because this is a piece that’s missing. Often you might find a few good people to hire on as an employee or to bring in your team as a general partner, then you realize not everybody has the same values, right?
Not everybody has the same vision. Not everybody has the same work. So now you’re all equal third, third, let’s say, and you’re putting in 80 hours and they’re putting in 10 hours. Why is it split that way? And were the expectations drawn? And was there an operating agreement that outlined that, so that if those folks didn’t pull their weight, they were pushed out?
Things like that. You have to think about when you’re building your business because you will need people to scale. If you want to scale if you don’t want to. Go it alone. Take some time. That’s why you’ll see a lot of single-family flippers doing that business. They’ll hire a contractor, they’ll flip a few properties, then they realize, man, I can’t scale.
I just, and I’m paying all these taxes and the money comes out. So that’s my piece of advice. I hope that makes sense.
If you don't challenge yourself, you're never going to know how to overcome these challenges with deals.
Absolutely. And I think that flipping, in particular, I don’t make investment recommendations to anyone, but I tend to steer people away from flipping because of the tax situation because it’s so templated, so tempting to try to swing the hammer on your own rather than, hire a contractor and shop it out and everything.
But so this gets into the aspect. The people skills aspect of scaling. And I was hoping we’d be able to get to this here today because we’re talking about the people, but it’s not as easy as just saying a couple of magic words and getting people to do what you want them to do or writing an operating agreement in such away.
And everybody does what they’re supposed to do. Like you can work out that way, but you’d rather. Have people work in unison and not have to default to the agreement and the written words on the operating agreement. So I’m rambling here. Let’s talk about these people skills that can help you scale.
Yeah, that’s a great question. I love that question. The reason I love it is because in my opinion not just in my career, which, I’ve built, but in a lot of the businesses that I’ve been part of or seen around me, It starts with the people whether it’s your team or your employees, or even your family or your significant other, you need a good foundation around you.
You need good influences around you, right? You need good employees that want to go, people that have the right attitude. I work for a CEO and he was always about hire for attitude, train for skill. It was like, I got hired by my mentor who changed my life. And he said to me I can teach you everything about the business, but I can’t teach what comes to you naturally.
And I’m not trying to glow, this was his words. These were his words. And I asked him, what do you mean. And he said you have a really good attitude. You have a lot of energy about you and I’ve been watching you for weeks now. I’ve been coming out to your business. And I, he goes, I need a guy like you.
And I thought that’s a skill. That’s crazy. I didn’t even realize that was a skill. And then throughout the years, I started to cultivate that. So here’s what I would tell you. Building a real estate business or any business. One, not only do you have to understand how to bring good people into your organization, but then you have to understand how to communicate with those people and treat them like people not unlike talking to an investor, I’ve been on many investors calls with different groups.
And oftentimes it’s very, staunchly, it’s very what are your investment goals and what have you done in the past, and what’s your name and blah, blah, blah. And it feels like I’m talking to a computer. Whereas I th I feel the better approach might be, tell me about your life. Just, if you don’t mind, help me understand who you are.
I don’t need to know necessarily that you bought a single-family. You, I assume you bought a single-family, right? Or you own a home or, I really want to know about you and then people open up and they start sharing more information with you. And the same thing with employees. Yes. You have to treat people when you’re a boss, like an employee, but there’s also a human side to this thing.
And when you can connect with people, they’ll want to work hard for. They’ll want to go along with you. They will follow. You. They’ll want to invest with you. It’s a people, business systems, infrastructure, spreadsheets, all that. That’s not that difficult people are difficult.
So if you could hone your skills and deal with people and understand the other side of things, you can grow any one of your businesses in any way. Believe me, we’ve done it. And it’s just being a good listener and asking the right questions. Some of that’s an opinion, some of that’s fast.
Nice. Nice. I love that. And people are key to any business. As they say, your network is your net worth. Whether it’s, Investor network or the people that you’re doing deals with, or what have you. I think it’s just reinforced over and over again to me and demonstrated to me over the years, how important that people bought people are particularly in the real estate business.
It’s such a people business. That’s probably one of the biggest lessons that I’ve learned over the years. Nice. I love it right now. We’re going to take a quick break for our sponsor. All right, Chris, I’ve got three questions. I ask every guest on the show. Are you ready?
I am ready, Taylor.
All right. Great. First one. What is the best investment you ever made other than in your education?
It would be a sales and marketing company and building out that business because it taught me incredible people skills. 100% building out a sales and marketing company to develop my people skills, not so much education because it was a business.
But definitely sales and marketing.
Nice. Nice. We have the best investment. Now we go to the other side of that coin, the worst investment. What is the worst investment you ever made?
The worst investment I ever made was trying to get into brick-and-mortar retail. And the reason for that is I realized it was not a good personality fit for me.
In other words, I like free-thinking. I liked being able to travel and move and just get thrown in chaos and solve it. I had a very hard time. Being in one place, seven days a week, 20 hours a day. And it just wasn’t for me. So that for me was my worst investment. Fortunately, I only lost a little bit of money paid off all the vendors, and turned out.
Okay. But that was probably no, that was my worst investment.
And while you learned something, so yeah, that’s some benefit to it. My favorite question here at the end of the show is what is the most important lesson you’ve learned in business and investing.
For me, the most important lesson is being able to utilize it.
Someone else paying me for my skillsets versus jumping out when I wanted to so many times and start that next business or business. In other words, if you focus on your skill set, identify that whatever it is in my case was a sales and marketing career and people, that was just what I tended to be good at.
If you can focus on that and get someone else to pay you well for that skill set. Even if that means you do it twice, you have another side gig perhaps and you make more money outside the means of your living. In other words, you’re living below your means, right? Then you can use that money to invest, which can eventually propel you into the job that maybe you won’t, or maybe that business you want to get into your passion, let’s say, but don’t lose sight of that.
I talked to a lot of entrepreneurs or would-be entrepreneurs that are so highly focused on starting up. That coffee shop, the tattoo parlor, the food shopper, whatever it may be. And they’re losing sight of a foundation of having consistent income and emergency savings and a way to handle a downturn, right?
So they put all their dreams or passionate enthusiasm into this thing. It doesn’t work out. And then they’re crushed. When in reality, they had a massive skill set that if put to work correctly could have paid them so well that if invested properly. They could have opened up this business and probably not failed or maybe realized, business isn’t, even for me, I’m just going to have others pay me well for my skillsets.
And then I’ll be able to retire early as a result of that. I think sometimes we lose sight of that and lose sight of our value because we’re so focused on creating something because we think it’s freedom and it’s not always freedom. It’s more. I hope that makes sense.
I think it does well, Chris, thank you for joining us today.
It’s been a great conversation with you for the past hour, but the audience only gets to listen to about 30 minutes of it. If folks want to reach out, if they want to get in touch, if they want to track you down or anything like that, where can they find you?
Yeah. Go to sterlingrhinocapital.com. You can sign up on our website.
We’ve got all kinds of places. And if you want free education, just check us out on YouTube, Sterling Rhino Capital.
Great. Thank you once again for joining us today to everybody out there. Thank you for tuning in. If you’re enjoying the show, please leave us a rating and review on apple podcasts. I appreciate that so much.
You guys that help us rank higher in the apple podcast ecosystem that helps other people learn about the show. And I’m always honest with you guys that gives me a nice little warm and fuzzy feeling. Cause I get that you’re engaging with the content and you’re escaping the wall street casino along with us.
If you know anyone who could use a little bit more passive wealth in their lives, please share the show with them and bring them into the tribe. Don’t forget to subscribe no matter what podcast app you use and we’ll catch you here every Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday. I hope you have a great rest of your day and we’ll talk to you on the next one.
Bye-bye.
Sterling Rhino Capital
About our Guest
Chris Roberts
Sterling Rhino Capital, LLC – Founder and CEO Sterling Rhino Capital – Founder and CEO Chris Roberts has been a full-time entrepreneur and real estate investor since 2007. Chris specializes in investor relations, commercial debt, and managing financials. Chris started his real estate career by renovating, flipping, building, and renting dozens of single-family residences, in addition to running his own property management company that manages his smaller assets. Chris is currently focused on helping others create passive cash flow through investing in larger, 100+ unit multifamily apartment buildings. Chris is personally invested in over 2,900 apartment units nationwide and has led Sterling Rhino Capital to acquire and control 834 units across several assets in Virginia, Georgia and Texas with an estimated value of over $53MM.
Chris has been a contributor on Bigger Pockets, is a member of the Forbes Real Estate Council and an Author. He is also the host of the Charging Forward Podcast where he interviews successful entrepreneurs to find out how they broke through mediocrity to become extraordinary. Chris is an Enterprise Partner with Feeding America and is passionate about teaching and giving back. Chris enjoys spending time with his wife Christina and traveling. They have been married for 11 years and have two dogs Bentley and Oliver.
Episode Show Notes
Chris Roberts is the Founder and CEO of Sterling Rhino Capital, LLC. Chris has been a full-time entrepreneur and real estate investor since 2007. He specializes in investor relations, commercial debt, and managing financials. He started his real estate career by renovating, flipping, building, and renting dozens of single-family residences, in addition to running his own property management company that manages his smaller assets. Chris is currently focused on helping others create passive cash flow through investing in larger, 100+ unit multifamily apartment buildings. Chris is personally invested in over 2,900 apartment units nationwide and has led Sterling Rhino Capital to acquire and control 834 units across several assets in Virginia, Georgia and Texas with an estimated value of over $53MM.
Chris has been a contributor on Bigger Pockets, is a member of the Forbes Real Estate Council, and an Author. He is also the host of the Charging Forward Podcast where he interviews successful entrepreneurs to find out how they broke through mediocrity to become extraordinary. Chris is an Enterprise Partner with Feeding America and is passionate about teaching and giving back. Chris enjoys spending time with his wife Christina and traveling. They have been married for 11 years and have two dogs, Bentley and Oliver.
[00:01 – ] Opening Segment
- Get to know Chris Roberts
- A dynamic real estate journey
- How Chris started in real estate as a teen
[05:38 – 16:19] Financial Independence with Real Estate
- Seeing the world based on our experiences and planting the right mindset seeds early on
- Plan your Second Life, the life of your dreams
- Overcoming real estate challenges through famous quotes
- Grunt work makes you stronger
[16:20 – 23:26] What To Do Next?
- Become the Deal Architect
- Relative Skillset, Mindsets, and Opportunities
- How to Scale Your Business through People Skills
- “It starts with the people.”
[23:27 – 31:25] Closing Segment
- Quick break for our sponsors
- Groundfloor offers short-term, high-yield real estate debt investments to the general public. Check www.passivewealthstrategy.com/groundfloor/ to get started.
- What is the best investment you’ve ever made other than your education?
- Sales and marketing company
- Chris’s worst investment
- Brick and mortar retail
- What is the most important lesson that you’ve learned in business and investing?
- Focus on your skills set and get paid for that to start investing on what you really want
- Connect with my guest. See the links below.
Tweetable Quotes:
“There’s much more to life than just thinking of retirement. You can control your destiny.” – Chris Roberts
“You have to be willing to give nearly all of your free time to your craft. You have to put in every free moment you have as soon as you find that first opportunity.” – Chris Roberts
“People are difficult. If you can hone your skills and dealing with people and understand the other side of things, you can grow any one of your businesses in any way.” – Chris Roberts
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Connect with Chris Roberts through LinkedIn and Youtube. Visit Sterling Rhino Capital and create passive income, wealth, freedom, and fulfillment for your planned second life.
Invest passively in multiple commercial real estate assets such as apartments, self storage, medical facilities, hotels and more through https://www.passivewealthstrategy.com/crowdstreet/
Participate directly in real estate investment loans on a fractional basis. Go to www.passivewealthstrategy.com/groundfloor/ and get ready to invest on your own terms.
Join our Passive Investor Club for access to passive commercial real estate investment opportunities.
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