Asset & Construction Management for Apartment Investors with Ashley Wilson

Transcript:

Ashley Wilson 0:00 

My opinion you should have someone on the general partnership team run construction management I think a lot of people are not doing this because they don’t know someone who knows construction management, knows multifamily and understands the complexity of what we’re trying to accomplish.

Taylor 0:22 

Welcome to passive wealth strategies for busy professionals. Today, our guest is Ashley Wilson, from bar down investments. Today you are going to learn about asset management, construction management and property management of multifamily real estate investments and the critical differences between the three of those the important realities of all of those roles and responsibilities in any multifamily investment. 

We’re just going to cover that topic very thoroughly today actually is an asset and construction manager on multiple multifamily syndications, including one where she and I and a few others partnered to purchase 225 units in Texas.

We’re going to talk about that today we’re really going to dive deep into this topic, which in my opinion is not covered enough asset management and construction management specifically, people aren’t doing it as well as they need to be and Ashley is an expert on both of them.So without further ado, here’s the interview. Ashley, thanks for joining us today. I you know, everybody got a little pre chat here before we started recording and a lot of great content. So I couldn’t wait to hit record. Thank

Ashley Wilson 1:34 

you very much for having me.

Taylor 1:35 

It’s really exciting. So you know, I mentioned a little bit about your experience. Could you you know, give us a fill out that background for us help us understand where you’re coming from, and why should we why we should listen.

Ashley Wilson 1:48 

So approximately 10 years ago, my husband and I purchased a rental property, I don’t think we necessarily knew what we were getting ourselves into at the time. But we did purchase a single family rental property we did both short term rentals on that property and long term rentals over the course of the hold. 

Fortunately for us, it was in a vacation area. So we experienced firsthand and our first getting our feet wet in real estate, we did actually quite well in that property, which led to another property and also to it led to our extreme passion for real estate. The backstory to myself growing up is I was on the other side of real estate and construction and I actually saw it more as a burden. 

My father is a general contractor. He’s owned his own business for over 45 years. He’s worked on everything from section eight to multimillion dollar mansions commercial and everything in between. So while other folks were profiting from real estate that my father was working on, I saw my dad, you know, grinding it out day in and day out on the other side and seeing the burden of ownership that a property had. So I had a completely different perspective of property ownership. 

And approximately five years ago, I partnered with my father and started a flipping business we actually focus primarily in the high end, full renovation flipping business, we found that our renovations were not able to compete with the entry level flippers that were coming into the market and the market is just flooded with people coming into flipping. So the entry level price point 100 to $300,000 was something that most people could scrape together enough deposit money and construction rehab money funds to be able to complete that price point home. 

So what we realized that we were really advantageous and had a competitive advantage on was we understood historic homes, we could do full got rehabs and very efficient time we had the ability to purchase more expensive homes. 

So we are purchasing starting around 300 400, even 500,000 and then rehabbing those homes. So that business has been in effect for five years, this fall, which we’re really excited about then moving forward, we my husband and I were looking into getting into another component of real estate one of the things we kept circling back to is the multifamily space. So approximately a year ago, we passively invested.

And in an apartment in Ohio, it’s 101 units, it was more of a conservative place stabilized performing asset. It wasn’t a repossession, but it was definitely something that we could learn from the general partnership, how the deal is run, how they’re handling the overall operations, and really learned from experience indicators. That led us to partnering with another group on a value add property 124 units. So we co sponsored that deal.

We were brought on initially we just wanted to learn. But very quickly, our co sponsors realized that we had a lot of value to add, specifically within the construction and asset management realm. 

So they asked us to co sponsor the deal they asked me, in particular, to run the asset and construction management. So I did that for several months then most recently, as you mentioned, I partnered with another group, that I’m very fortunate to be a part of their very experienced group, there a great team to work with I’m also doing the asset and construction management on this property, which is a 225 unit property out of Amarillo, Texas.

Taylor 6:10 

Now, for folks that are not on the live call, or maybe I don’t actually I don’t know if you noticed this, but uh, Jeff Greenberg from Synergetic, Jeff’s actually on the call, too. So we got we got a lot of the team here. That’s pretty exciting thank you for telling us about your experience folks that that tune into these discussions, they usually know they are familiar with syndication, but you know, maybe they don’t know the roles that are split between property managers, asset managers, construction management, what is Asset Management versus construction management? 

Why do you need all three of those can we address the basics as to why we need to fill these three roles, you know, before we step into who should be handling, you know, those responsibilities?

Ashley Wilson 6:54 

Absolutely. So starting from the ground level up, we’ll start with the property management team, the property management team is handling the day to day operations with the boots on the ground. So they’re handling the current tenants concerns, they’re handling, handling and taking on tour future prospective tenants. They’re also handling maintenance requests, the day to day operations, any major changes are what we’d like to call capital expenditures, that we are renovating the property. 

They’re they’re really the centerpiece, in my opinion, quite arguably the most important part of a syndication. If you have an excellent team, if you have amazing general partnership and amazing passive partnership, you have amazing bankers, you have amazing underwriters, all all these excellent pieces, but your property management team is subpar. It doesn’t matter how great of a deal that you acquired, because the property management team is really the make or break on entire ownership success. So that’s starting with the property management team, then I’ll move on to the asset management team. 

The asset management team is a person or persons that are part of the general partnership they are protecting the asset for the investors. So they’re looking at the day to day operations and overseeing the property management’s handling of those operations. The construction management team is handling anything to do with what I was mentioning earlier, the capital expenditures, they’re also managing to any type of major renovations that were unplanned. So let’s say for example, you have a storm come through the property and you lose 50% of your roof. 

So you really need someone with construction management experience to tackle that task and ensure that it gets handled appropriately, whether that’s through insurance or paying out of pocket. So it’s really important that that construction manager understands to whether it’s via cap x or an insurance, that they’re working hand in hand with that asset manager to really understand the game plan for that property. Specifically, if it’s for reposition.

Taylor 9:16 

And where do you stand about, you know, my experience with property management kind of making or breaking a deal? Definitely is 100%, in line with what you said about it, about property management being a very pivotal part, you know, if you have an awesome deal, awesome GP team, all that stuff, but your property management stinks, then they can really ruin what could have been a very good deal and that I have some experience later that but won’t get into that now. 

So as far as who should be maybe a third party service service provider, versus a member of the ownership company, a member of the general partnership, who should have more skin in the game, what are your thoughts, you know, there should we who should be third party who should be your first party?

Ashley Wilson 10:04 

A lot of people are. So if we go back to each component here and start with the property management team, a lot of people feel that property management should come in house. I can see either side to that argument. However, whoever is managing property management should be exceptional at the property management piece also to it depends on where you’re investing.

If you’re investing in your backyard, obviously, it’s a lot easier to keep your property management in house, if you’re investing across the country it might be to it might prove to be a little bit more challenging to do that. So are you if you want to handle property management, and you don’t want to fly out to the property all the time. I mean, really, I think you should outsource Property Management at that point. 

You’ll still need a property manager on site. But you could take on the property management responsibility from afar. If you really understood property management. I think a lot of people think they understand property management, but legislation changes all the time I think that if you are not up to date on your local laws, state laws and regulations that you can easily open up yourself your investment and your investors to a lot of liability that you do not want to take on. 

So for me personally, one of the things that I think property management teams are taking on when they take on a property for you. Is that liability assumption? Are they creating ads to solicit tenants that could violate the FHA laws? Are they taking people on tour pass, where they’re not taking the same person on the same exact tour path, that’s a violation of FHA? There are a lot of nuances that frankly, I am not an expert in that is even more reason why I shouldn’t be a property man manager. 

That is not my focus. I do have an awareness about it I do feel that is my responsibility to stay educated on it. Because as an asset manager, I’m also overseen to ensure that the property management team is aware of those rules and regs and they are following them. So it doesn’t just fall off the radar because you’re not a property manager. However, being aware of it keeping up to date, that’s something that you you definitely need to ensure, as an asset manager, I think you can tell I side a little bit more on the property management side that that should be outsource. 

But I know that’s, you know, everyone talks about the different ways you get paid in in multifamily that’s one of the ways that you get paid in multifamily. But frankly, you’re going to be hiring someone. At some point. multifamily is such a team sport, that you really need the appropriate people in each position. No one, no single person could handle all aspects of multifamily ownership, specially at the quantity, you know that the size properties that were a part of hundred plus units, you’re not having just one person do soup to nuts on these properties. So I really think that it’s more important to have experts lead each aspect. So moving on to asset management, I really think asset management should be an in house. 

In house task, I believe it should be in house and part of the general partnerships responsibility because one of the safeguards that the asset manager is ensuring is the investment itself they are double check on the day to day operations, the property management, ensuring that the underwriting and the plan for the property is being executed I think that someone who is going to be motivated to do that. Now oftentimes you can find,

Ashley Wilson 13:51 

or I shouldn’t say oftentimes, but sometimes you can find a property management team that does treat the property like it’s their own property, but that is few and far between. So even if they are treating the property, like it’s their own property, at the end of the day, a property management team is motivated by different factors they are seeing day in and day out tenants, and the squeaky wheel gets the grease always that’s that’s life, that’s a human nature type of model.

And if you have the tenants coming in the office every day, a lot of your decisions will probably be geared towards appeasing those tenants as opposed to appeasing your ownership team, especially if your ownership team is a hands off ownership team. So I really think it’s important that the asset management be handled in house. Taking that one step further I know a lot of people will disagree with me on this a lot of people will disagree with me on this because I think that they actually do not have a resource.

And it’s not because they don’t agree with what I’m saying. But they don’t know where to go for the resource to do this next part, which is construction management. Construction Management is often outsourced to a third party under and that could either be the construction company that’s overseeing construction management on their behalf. Or it could be, a property management team. In either case, your alignment with having a construction manager take on those responsibilities is no longer aligned. 

What do I mean by that? First of all, let’s break down the compensation. So a construction manager is paid when you do a third party outsourcing off a percentage of the total cost of that construction. So a construction manager clearly would want the construction costs to go up as opposed to down. That’s not aligned with what you want to do. As an owner, you are looking for ways to have a high yield on your ROI in order to have a high yield on your ROI. very simplistically, you are decreasing what you’re putting in, and you’re hoping for an increase in your return out. If you have a construction manager who’s compensated off of the higher in you put in and they are really careless they there’s no motivation, on your return on investment on the yield the ramp, etc. Why are they motivated to decrease the cost of that construction? Further, if you look at time, and any investor knows that time is money. If it takes two weeks to renovate a unit for an outsource company, why would they be motivated to turn that unit in, you know, half the time to one week’s time. 

So really, I always like to give the example because it’s easiest when you think about it in terms of days. If you have a renovation that takes seven days versus six days across 100 units, that the hundred days of last potential loss rent. So your GDPR is actually risk of 100 days of loss of income, because of one single day. Now, no owner would let a single unit sit vacant for 100 days that’s basically what you’re doing. So, in my opinion, you should have someone on the general partnership team run construction management. 

And I think a lot of people are not doing this because they don’t know someone who knows construction management, knows multifamily and understands the complexity of what we’re trying to accomplish. In fact, to be honest with you, I haven’t met a single person yet that does construction management, asset management, and understands multifamily how you are literally increasing your noi. 

So you can exponentially increase the property evaluation. Most people know that within the multifamily space. But trying to find someone who understands construct, and understands that and understands all the components of multifamily is very rare and that’s why I think syndicates, syndicators are not finding someone’s around construction management. Now, personally, if I was a passive investor, and I saw that, okay, yes, the general partnership team is going to oversee the asset on the operational side, but they’re not overseeing the construction side, there’s no one on the team that actually understands construction, I would never even think about investing with them, I don’t care how good of a deal it is, I don’t even care if it’s a stabilized property.

Because even with a stabilized property, how many properties can you own for three to five years, which is the average ownership on these properties, where you don’t have a single capex item comes up, you’re going to whether it’s in, you know, it’s known at the time of purchase, or whether it’s something that comes up to to a natural disaster, or, you know, if you have a fire, something to that degree, you really need to ensure that someone on a team understands all aspects of constructions, because otherwise, you’ll be at risk

Ashley Wilson 19:12 

for being taken advantage of at the end of the day, that is not what you are responsible as a general partnership to do, you’re responsible to not only protect the asset for all of the investors, but you are responsible to put in place the best equipped people to operate and manage the property.

Taylor 19:33 

There’s a lot of information in what you just said it’s, you know, I’m taking notes over here, for folks on the video probably see me glancing over, I’m writing these things down, because there’s so much awesome information here I would I would echo some of the things that you said, especially at the end, I mean, I, I’ve been in a situation as a passive investor.

Now this was early in my passive investing career where the property management was in house turns out the construction management was ultimately in house as well. There was alleged malfeasance on someone’s part in there the company was being overbilled for the work, and it wasn’t being done promptly. So you have a lot of problems in that because your property management is no longer third party, it’s in house, even though it’s somebody’s company doing it, you have to still kick that person out of the company. Plus the money that was basically effectively wasted on the construction is gone, you know that money is lost. So there’s a lot more mess to clean up for. 

You know, maybe when you bring that on your underwriting initially, when you bring it in house, maybe it looks a little cleaner, makes your numbers look a little prettier up at the front, but the risk to bringing that in house and the construction and construction management side and house as well. The risk is just so high you know, people don’t talk about it. So, you know, I certainly agree with a lot of what you had to say if everything you had to say. 

And furthermore, I would say, you know, I’m not a construction manager, I don’t have that skill set I’m confident in saying that many other syndicators and passive investors do not have the construction management and asset management skill sets, either. So, you know, you’re saying it’s, you haven’t met anybody else with those skills. But, you know, for someone out there that doesn’t have an Ashley Wilson out there? How can they get started on finding someone? Can they go get find an asset manager and a construction manager and just say, all right, you to play to play nice together and figure it out? Or what can they do? If you know we have this problem? How can we solve it and get these two things working together,

Ashley Wilson 21:50 

the name of the game is to partner in multifamily. So you really need to find the correct partner, like you said, you know, to your point, you’re not a construction manager that’s fine, maybe you’re great at raising money, I don’t know, like everyone has a role to play. My point is, is that the point that’s being overlooked is the construction management side. 

And I’m sorry, I forgot to kind of loop it all back in as to why you would want the construction manager in house that is because if you have the construction manager have ownership in the general partnership, as opposed to compensating them for a flat fee, then all of the sudden your interests are aligned. 

So for example, if my compensation is based off of ownership in the general partnership, then clearly I’m going to be equally motivated as all other general partners to get the job done as quickly, most efficiently, cheapest way possible, you know, so from all of those perspectives, and why I think that people are overlooking This is because in some parts, I think people are being a little greedy, and they don’t want to give away part of the general partnership. 

And I think that’s very short sighted. I think if you want to grow bigger, faster, it’s by finding the right partners. I also think, too, that you don’t know what you don’t know I think that there are a lot of people getting into this business that want a very cookie cutter approach that they can just follow the steps and they’ll end up with, you know, 1000 units or whatever algorithm because everyone’s so obsessed with unit count. It’s ridiculous. 

But really, I think that if people focused on building the right team, and finding those people, if it takes an extra, you know, a month or two or or just really networking to find these people, I think that it’s worth it. Because at the end of the day, I think that once investors passive investors start to realize that there is no one actually knowledgeable about construction on our real estate investment is ludicrous to me, like I can’t get over that, that people invest with groups, where there is no one who actually has any sort of construction knowledge on the team. 

And in order to find those partners, I really think that you need to, well, first of all, I feel like they’re limited because most of the time people that have construction knowledge are typically not in the multifamily space on the ownership side. They’re typically on you know, they, they might be your actual contractors, for example, or they might be passive investors, because their construction company is doing so well. 

And they’re not interested in and just running this. So I think that it’s it’s definitely an uphill battle. But you know, there’s got to be other people out there like myself that understand multifamily can underwrite a deal, can asset and construction manage a deal I think if people spend the time looking for someone to do that, then I think their deals would run a lot smoother to

Taylor 25:08 

everything has a cost, right? So you’re saying people don’t want to give up a piece of the general partnership, or they don’t want to take on this additional cost or perceived cost all that there’s a value to everything, you know, we need to focus on the value that we get, and not just the cost that we pay. If we’re talking about bringing someone on as an asset manager or construction manager any either of these roles. 

You know what, what, we don’t need to get too specific to give people a precise window. But like, what are what are these folks typically looking for? I mean, what are we as syndicators and what are we going to pay an asset manager? If they’re taking a part of the general partnership? Or I don’t know, a management fee? Or, you know, what is that all? What does the compensation look like? Just so we know what to expect? And what kind of dollar figures we’re talking?

Ashley Wilson 26:01 

So this is an excellent question. There’s an industry standard on what asset managers and construction managers are getting that is based on the scope of the project. Obviously, if you have a smaller, more stabilized property versus let’s say you have 1000 unit property with 50%, offline, that you’re taking over and going to renovate not only the units that are online, but bring back on all these units that were offline. 

Clearly, there’s a different level of work that is needed for those two different examples, those two extremes there is a general accepted range within industry standards of anywhere from 20 plus or minus 20%, all the way up to 35, plus or minus as well. 40. I’ve heard of 40 45%, it really depends on the scope of the project I do believe that that is a very fair way of looking at the compensation. 

But I also think personally, that the asset and the construction manager are often their roles are often downplayed, and I think this goes very closely with I think what we were talking about before we started recording, which is a lot of people are getting really lucky right now, because of the market they’re selling these properties for insane profits. 

But they weren’t really running the properties that well, it’s just because the market is so hot the increase in the evaluation is so great, because the demand is so high, that people are almost getting rewarded for running properties in mediocrity levels. 

So because of that, I think that when there is a turn in the market, I think that will see a huge divide as to who really knows what they’re doing, and has positioned themselves in a way that can get them through a challenging turn in the market who has been playing the appreciation game and just been getting lucky really not running their properties that well, but being rewarded for not writing their properties. 

Well, because the markets just so hot. So to your to your point on the compensation, I think that the asset and construction manager have been downplayed because it’s been so easy to run a property and still make a profit. But I really think in the coming years, you’re even more so going to need someone who knows how to run a property effectively, to not only make a profit, but potentially just come out on the, in the black, you know, as opposed to in the ride and keep your investors happy , and the property from being taken over from the neck. You know,

Taylor 29:08 

yeah, cap rate compression over the last, you know, just in this market cycle has made a lot of people a lot of money , you know, if that changes of cap rates really start creeping back up. I mean, some markets, they’re creeping up a little bit, but for the most part has been more or less flat. I mean, we’re not, we’re not really headed downward anymore. 

But if those start to come back up at some point, I mean, some some people who haven’t planned properly haven’t maybe haven’t managed to manage their asset well, or, you know, a lot of there’s a lot involved in there haven’t gotten their debt, right, all that stuff, you know, could potentially lose a lot of money that could that could be a very big deal. Now, another question, I want to ask you, we talked before we started recording, that you live outside of Philly. 

And then the the deal that we’re both invested in along with many others is in Texas and Amarillo, I mean, it’s not a short drive, it’s not a right around the block you you have to get on a plane, how high? How does an asset manager construction manager work remotely like that you know, for folks that are out there looking for an asset manager and construction manager, should they be, you know, our most asset managers, construction managers, good at working remotely. I mean, let’s talk about doing business at estate aspect of this asset management and construction management.

Ashley Wilson 30:25 

So I mentioned before that I started my flipping business while I’m flipping business about five years ago, and I was actually living in Europe when I started that business, even though the businesses located in Pennsylvania prior to that, to be honest with you, I actually worked in the pharmaceutical realm, and I worked in clinical research and development. So I worked on drugs and vaccine trials. 

That were trials running all over the world prior to FDA and other regulatory submissions, like in Europe, it’s called Ma. But long story short is I never understood at that time how much that was training me or the role that I’m in now even the role that I was in while I was living in Europe and starting up that company.

But what that really taught me besides obviously, pediatric vaccines, is it also taught me to how to not only systematized things, but systemized systematized things from afar I think that is something that I’ve grown quite strong at doing. The number one key that I can tell you to being successful at it is communication. Number two is organization. So the more you can, a lot of people say that, you know, don’t over communicate, your, you want to have very efficient calls. 

And the reality is when you take over property and you’re not located next to the property, you’re going to have a lot of calls, and you’re going to be taking calls at all hours of the day, seven days a week if that’s not what your jam is, do not sign up to be an asset manager. So to be honest with you, that’s my jam, I love it, I love being available all the time for the property, I love finding creative ways to make the property super successful, I’m really, really motivated by that I’m motivated by saving even $1. 

Because $1 with, you know, certain cap rate is exponentially, adding to the valuation of the property that to me, makes me very excited. I mean, I got really excited when I figured out a way to save $50 a month on the phone bill. So because I understand how much that helps the evaluation of the property and every little penny counts. So really, for me, learning how to manage from afar was it really started with when I worked in pharmaceutical goals, and I was a director of global project management just realizing how to run things and keep people motivated and, and stay in communication and keep up to date and lots of trackers making it crystal clear the processes that we’re following, making sure you have processes, making sure that communication is organized, having meetings taking minutes, I mean, these are all things that big corporations do the reason they do that, and the reason why these big corporations stay in business is because it’s kind of organized chaos that’s what you’re trying to create your you want things to be organized, you want to have lots of communication, and you really want to stay on top of your projects. So whatever works for you, for me, it’s a lot, a lot of communication, a lot of documentation. So it’s very clear what decisions are being made, what things are outstanding, where we stand on those items that are outstanding, so no one questions where we are on a single item. 

And then also to it’s about developing systems and learning from your mistakes. I mean, I self reflect all the time I look at the trackers that I’m creating I say how do I make this better? How to how do I condense this, how do I make it more efficient for my team, what works for my team, I like to get feedback from people and, and make sure that everything we’re doing works for the greater good, the collective whole.

 Because really, if something’s not working for the majority, then we’ve got to change it people who continue the course and expect different results are going to be upset with the end result. So I think it’s really important that you really stay on top of everything. 

And I can’t stress it enough communication organization. Without those two items, you’re going to fail 100%, I can guarantee it you will fail. So really focus on those two items you can definitely turn things around and start off on a good foot

Taylor 35:08 

nice. So you’re very uniquely uniquely qualified and experienced in these types of long distance project management type of activities getting into this business has been adjusting those skills to asset management, construction managers changing, moving them over , and and readapting to this new business. But you know, if we’re, if we’re looking for another, you know, someone’s out there looking for an asset manager and you’re not available, make sure they know what they’re doing, if they’re going to be doing it from a distance and make sure they’re qualified, if they’re going to be doing it from a distance.

Ashley Wilson 35:47 

And they have experience doing it. I mean, why would you ever want to work with someone who isn’t experienced in that realm in some facet? Like, was I expect on the first property? Was I experienced that managing a property of that magnitude prior to the first property? No. But did I manage renovation before that long distance? Yes. 

And before managing that renovation long distance? Did I know renovation? 

And have I managed from a distance before? The answer to both of those questions is yes. So it’s interesting how you don’t really see how your life is setting you up for your future career, or you know, what comes across your, your plate here. But it’s, it’s definitely if you look at all the pieces, it really makes sense that I should be good at this, you know, and that’s kind of the thing that you need to look for, when you’re looking to partner with someone, you really need to understand their background and what their strengths are. 

For example, if you find someone who has managed from afar, who has construction experience, but they’re introverted, I wouldn’t necessarily say that this is a good role for them. 

Because you really need to stay on top of people and really need to go after it not be afraid to have some difficult conversations when needed, whether it be with the property management team, your construction team, or even your general partners. Sometimes, you know, you might have to say to your general partners that I really don’t think this is a strategy that we should be pursuing, because of xy and z. 

And, and give that feedback back. Because that’s what they want you to do. I mean, that’s why you’re in that role is to be the eyes and ears for the general partnership on a day to day with the asset and then construction management. So you know, just really look at what would make someone successful in that role then do what you would do for any other job interview. Get to know them, get to know their background, make sure that their references, check out all of the typical things that you would do for any other type of business.

Taylor 38:10 

Absolutely. So we just hit 40 minutes on our discussion, I’ve got three questions, I would like to ask everybody that I interview about investing. So let’s let’s get right in. There has been this has been really good I’m sure we could talk about this. This all night. What is the best investment you’ve ever made

Ashley Wilson 38:31 

education, the best investment I’ve ever made, it has been an education. My grandfather told me at a very young age, that’s one thing someone can never take away from you is your education. 

And that’s something that I have lived into I buy I try to educate myself constantly. I mean, there’s so much information out there, there’s so much free information out there. It’s almost overwhelming how much information there is, I know you’re probably looking for like an investment in terms of a monetary investment, which I could give you. But to be honest with you, the best investment anyone can ever make is an education. 

So whether that’s surrounding yourself with good mentors, always put yourself in a position, if possible, to be the least knowledgeable about a topic in a room, if you can that’s another way that you can educate yourself reading of course, podcasts, I can’t tell you how many times I listen to podcasts I actually speed up the podcast so I can listen to more podcasts. But really just keep educating yourself. 

That’s the best investment anyone can ever make then once you are knowledgeable about a topic, I know everyone likes to use that cliche saying analysis paralysis, but you really have to take action for that education to set in. Humans, the way we actually learn things is through active learning, that’s the best retention for education. So the best way that you’re going to remember something and learn is to take action and try to get involved in any shape or form whether or not you want to be a general partner one day invest as a limited partner. 

Or if you don’t have the funds to invest as a limited partner, network with general partners, get to know them, see what they need help with, because everyone needs help with something as a general partner, there’s so many things to do then just learn from them and do whatever they need to be successful, I promise you, if you make someone successful, you will ultimately be successful yourself. It it always comes back. So just continue to put yourself in situations where you can educate yourself.

Taylor 40:47 

Nice. I like that answer. So I’m growing in my fan hood for Tony Robbins, he says we’re either moving toward something, or we’re moving away from something. So we’re moving toward education on the other side of that, what are we moving away from? And by that I mean, what is the worst investment you’ve ever made

Ashley Wilson 41:08 

the worst investment I’ve ever made, probably just being indecisive. So like if we’re, if we’re educating ourselves, the thing we’re moving away from is in decisiveness. Because I find for me, in particular, that when I’m indecisive, I’m not knowledgeable enough about a topic, and I’m trying to really understand whatever it is, and I’m not equipped enough to make that decision. 

Education allows you to make very quick decisions, because the more educated you are, the easier it is for you to think from a 360 analysis of a particular situation the less educated you are, in my opinion, you tend to think of something from a very narrow point of view, a very one sided point of view, and, or from no point of view, you’re not knowledgeable about it. 

So it leaves let’s some people still will make those knee jerk reaction decisions and they’ll just make a decision to make a decision for me I get indecisive I really need her on, I just personally I don’t like not knowing something, I really, really want to know something, I want to know all the details about something that’s just the type of person I am, then I can make a decision on that or help make a decision if someone wants my input or not. You know, I try to be helpful. But I would say that’s the worst investment is just

Taylor 42:40 

wasted time involved. There’s, you know, the, there’s effectively, you know, an infinite supply of money out there. I mean, there’s more money than, you know, anybody could ever spend available. But we all only have 24 hours in a day, and most of us aren’t going to make it past 100 years old. So, you know, we’ve got we all have limited time. 

And sitting around waiting to make a decision waiting and taking action is just a waste, a wasted investment, a bad investment of that, that time asset that you have we only have now and don’t waste your now. So I like that answer a lot this is my favorite question. The last one, what is the most important lesson you’ve learned in investing?

Ashley Wilson 43:25 

the most important lesson I’ve learned in investing is that when I initially got involved in investing, I had certain people put on pedestals almost like they were celebrities, I guess, not to the sense that I’m like fangirl over them, but to the sense that like, you know, they are someone that like I looked up to, and I really wanting to kind of emulate their path, so to speak, I guess. 

And I really thought to myself, okay, these are people who they must really know what they’re doing, because they come across very confident, and they come across as if they’re Uber successful I think the number one lesson that I’ve learned in the whole process, and I in it, to realize even more so in multifamily space is there are a lot of people out there that put on a persona that is not reflective of the caliber that I thought they were I think that a lot of people get caught up, especially in today’s age of a lot of social media, being influenced by really good marketing instead of genuine, intelligent, knowledgeable, trustworthy people. 

And that is a huge difference in some of the other players in this space I’m not saying that all of these people are who are very public about what they’re doing. But there have been people along the way, in every aspect of real estate that I’ve come across, where there are people that put on a persona of someone that they really aren’t I think that that is something that’s going to catch up with the real estate investing space collectively I think that long term, that there’s going to be some stricter legislation, because all it takes is one or two people who are acting inappropriately that are going to create some major change I think that is on the horizon, to be honest. 

So I think for people who are looking to partner or passively invest, I think you should be very cautious about who the right people are you really need to that your partners and your investors, and really be sure that you’re working with good people, and you’re looking up to good people, and you’re getting good information. 

But what I found is that, and this is the way it is across any aspect of your life is, once you do find one or two of those good people, they typically only surround themselves with good people. So you can follow their lead. So really, it’s not about oh my gosh, every single person now I need to be apprehensive about it’s more so finding just that one person and that person will introduce you to the next good person and really kind of taking that approach. 

I think that is a lesson that I’ve learned. So whenever I need someone new, just on my own introduction with that person, I’m leaving very cautious at the beginning now, and I don’t think I was as cautious when we first started out, I think I was a little bit more trustworthy I think that I assumed that when people were giving me their unit counts, and there, you know, I’ve been investing this long, and this is how much profit I’m making. 

And I’ve never lost money , you know, I just assumed they were telling me the truth over time, you realize that a lot of those stories are inflated. I don’t know why, but they are I think that you just have to be cautious about that and build the reputation that you want your family to be proud of. 

So for me, I I am totally fine with my reputation taking forever to grow. As long as there’s never a hiccup you know that people always know that I’m a very trustworthy person, I work very hard, I cared so much much about what we’re doing and protecting the investment. That to me is more important than, you know. flaunting profits. So that’s something for me personally, everyone’s different. But for me personally, that’s definitely something that is the most important lesson I’ve learned.

Taylor 48:22 

Yeah, you’re looking past the public image of the patina that people present looking more for the substance behind it maybe more with you didn’t use this word, but I’m going to put this word in your mouth, maybe more with a skeptical eye as to what folks are putting out there and looking again that the word that comes to mind for me, after skeptic is substance you’re looking for the substance behind a guru or a new rule as they as they say, I like that term. 

And yeah, I’ve seen that around once you go to your first couple of events, you might meet somebody whose voice you’ve heard on a podcast for a year or two years and you meet them in person and you’re like, after talking to him for a minute you’re like, this is just a guy like he’s been might have a lot of money in his wallet, but it’s just a dude. So where can folks get in touch with you.

Ashley Wilson 49:20 

So you can reach me via email at bar down investments at gmail. com we have a website invest bar down calm. So you can also see our information. There we are flipping business is called How’s it look? We have a website. How’s it look.com? And our email for How’s it look is How’s it look at gmail. com? We’re on Facebook and Instagram, both at the respective name. So how’s it look and bar down investments?

Taylor 49:47 

Awesome. Well, thanks for the discussion today. I definitely want to talk to you more offline sometime about maybe some of the stuff you don’t want to say publicly. But uh, you know, we’ll talk about that later. 

So everyone that tuned in to the live discussion, thank you for joining us to everyone listening to the recording later on on the podcast. We do these every month. We do a couple every month. So get on our email list and find out about them. 

Join us ask questions, come learn stuff alongside me. I mean, I’m learning stuff here. That’s That’s why we do this and let’s all go make some money together. So anyway, thanks for tuning in we’ll talk to you again later.