Mobile Homes - Not Parks! with John Fedro

Full Transcript

Taylor   0:02  

What's going on guys? This is the passive wealth strategy for busy professionals podcast. Today our guest is john fedra. Today we're talking about mobile homes and mobile home parks, but really more just mobile homes.

JOHN is a long time mobile home investor. He recently got a new mobile home park. today we talked about the strategies that he uses as a mobile home investor.

what it was like being kind of an early mover in the mobile home space, he was investing in mobile homes starting in 2002, which is very early most of the people out there today talking about mobile home park investing, have only started investing in this cycle.

JOHN started doing it before it was cool. we talked about those strategies, potential angles for passive investors in this space, I won't lie to you. This mobile home investing strategy is pretty active, it's going to take time and we're always looking for angles as passive investors.

To add value by adding capital and make a return so we're always looking for great guys like John, who are someday going to be meeting passive investors and we want to build relationships with those guys. get to know this. JOHN Briggs great lessons today. You're going to enjoy it. Thank you for tuning in. For those of you who are new to the show, I'm your host, Tabor vote. I'm a real estate investor in a real estate syndicator.

I buy properties with passive investors and split the return love talking about real estate investing. I believe it is the best path to passive wealth for busy professionals. Thrilled you tuned in today. Here we go with John federa. JOHN, thank you for joining us today.

Well, GM for joining me today. Happy to be talking with you. We're going to talk about mobile homes and mobile home parks, your experience buying them and all of that today. But for folks out there who don't know about you, please tell us about your history and what you buy and who you are.

John Fedro  1:58  

Oh, Where to begin the cold November night now, they got started in real estate soon out of high school and failed into mobile homes. Once I sort of discovered that mobile homes were even a thing, I was embarrassed about them.

But in my first year I had 14 mobile homes. I know I'm skipping over a lot of stuff. But I wanted to get started in traditional real estate.

I knew nothing about mobile homes, and then got my first mobile home in a park. My second one was on land. It was two and a half acres of land and then a little mobile home and, and then the other one in the park in a park and then was embarrassed at first I didn't even want to tell people what I was doing.

I mean, this was when I was very late or no, like just turned 20 and I probably looked like I was 15 and I didn't want to tell people what I was doing. I was embarrassed. This isn't real real estate, and I can't hack it as a real real estate investor, but I'm making money on it. Helping people and I'm doing deals. But and then I eventually did tell people it took like six months, I was going to real estate clubs.

I eventually stood up and said, Okay, I know you've seen me before. this is what I've been doing. they're like, Yes, here, I got some leads for you. I don't have to tell you like, okay.

Taylor   3:30  

That's great. I mean, especially over the last few years, it seems like mobile home parks have gotten very popular and,  to new investors, too, who don't have the experience and in making that transition from buying individual mobile homes to to mobile home parks, we Why did you Why did you make that transition?

John Fedro  3:55  

Common Sense.  It took me so long though. I got started in Florida in the Tampa area, Florida, and invested there for about 10 years and then moved over to Central Texas where I am now and still invest in Florida as well.

But back in Florida I was when you're a mobile home investor and you're buying individual homes, you can have a pretty good business and like a handful of communities, you don't need to be in 50 communities. I was in a couple communities, and one of them was first one and then another one a year later. Two of the owners, these are good sized communities by the way under a hundreds basis but good size.

they said john, we know who you are,  where I wasn't online or anything by them, but I owned a dozen homes or more in their Park, I'm paying them thousands of dollars. I'm on time every month,  buying, selling, selling homes on payments, and have a good reputation.

they came to me and they're like john, we want to own or finance this home to you or this park to you. like an idiot I mean, I just had my blinders on. I was happy doing what I was doing. I was thinking oh parks are a management game like Don't want to manage the things I sell on payments.

My phone doesn't ring for people. I just had my blinders on and like and just years later it took me that long and I'm like kicking myself I was I think so then a number of years later I finally. Yeah, just just yeah, I pulled the trigger and got into a park. But it was the right Park and I had the same butterflies. It was funny. I hadn't felt that in a long time. But before I got my first Park, those same butterflies of when I was just about to buy my first mobile home, I'm 22 years old again. I felt that way. Oh, my God.

But anyway, it was a long time coming and it should have happened sooner. In my opinion.

Taylor   5:39  

It's definitely stepping into the unknown numbers are a lot bigger with parks, I'm sure than individual homes. I'd like to get more perspective on what you were doing. When you were buying the individual homes. You mentioned a few strategies that you were using. But yeah, tell us about that business and what you were doing to earn a return

John Fedro  6:00  

Well, that business still lives on today, not only here in Central Texas, but is back in Florida for me around the country for other people, those relationships that I've built with the managers with the park owners, I don't want to just like,  get rid of those. I definitely want to keep those in. I am keeping those and still investing in those individual parts and people know me back there.

when it comes to buying and selling the individual homes, you wanted to talk more about the specific things like what a deal looks like. Yeah, tell

Taylor   6:32  

us about what that looked like. I mean, it was, you're saying you're operating in a couple of parks. Are you sending letters? Like who is the right person? Like, why would they want to sell the property to you? How would you buy it? How would you sell it like walking us through that process?

John Fedro  6:49  

Of course. Well, there's a spectrum of sellers out there. Some folks want retail prices. Many people want retail prices, many people are logical. They have some time. Some people, they just don't know what they want to sell or they don't.

There's not a lot of knowledge out there for individual mobile homes in parks. It's personal property. We deal with mobile home owners that are typically paycheck to paycheck. that's not good or bad. But the reason I bring that up is because things happen fast.

When people get into situations, they can't pay all the bills, there's title problems, The home has to be moved, the list goes on, but people need to sell somewhat quickly. Some people have all the time in the world, and some people need to sell pretty quickly.  we're not buying every home out there.

Yes, we can send postcards. Yes, we can knock on doors, sometimes. There's mobiles in parks, there's mobile's on land that there's mobiles that have to be moved. There's a mobile home, you can buy the entire park. We are talking to managers, we're getting a good reputation.

we're making offers, obviously, but to me, this sounds kind of just I guess, very kind of common, but we're making offers in the very first few weeks when I start working with People and moving forward, we're making offers to most people out there. As a mobile home investor.

I mean, you have to make offer after offer after offer, in my opinion, and we're closing on the best deals, the point of a moat, in my opinion, you get into mobile home investing because you don't have a lot of money. Or if you do have some money, you still just want to make a good return. We want to purchase low, obviously, we want to put some equity, we want to put some repairs into the home, and we want to sell it.

if you're selling it, is that for cash? Is that for you holding payments? And if you're holding payments, what does that look like? Is it a lease option or rent credit? Or are you selling the title and becoming a lien holder? And do you have a loan originator involved or not? But it's dealing with good people that need help? And then on the other side we're selling these for retail prices above retail on payments with interest. It's tough to answer that Question and like, like, this is exactly what we're doing because there's so many variables, but there's a ton of things we can do.

I mean, mobile homes, in parks on land, wholesale them, move them, buy them with payments, then sell them with payments. We kind of went all over the place.

Taylor   9:17  

Sure, no, I understand that. I mean, it is. This is successful because you have a lot of tools in your tool belt and build over time and you learn these strategies.   That's definitely part of the game.

You mentioned something I think here that is very important, especially right now where we are with the economy, and we're recording this before we release it, but things aren't gonna be different in a couple of months. Where he said folks are typically paycheck to paycheck, and we are in a situation where there's unprecedented unemployment.  we're having problems all over getting rent paid, things like that.

How has that been impacting  your investments in the mobile home park world and mobile homes and mobile home parks? And  what are you doing to kind of mitigate some of those impacts to get us through kind of this rough time.

John Fedro  10:14  

I can tell you what we're doing to mitigate and to prepare for things happening and what we think might happen. But I'm curious to answer that question in six months or a year to say What has changed? I can tell you what's changed back in like, oh 809 and maybe make similarities. But then there's also differences. Homes are more expensive.

Now there's more investors looking at these. What? So in April when we're recording this April has been pretty good. People have been paying for the most part. there really hasn't been any sort of folks that can't pay that much. we're selling these homes typically.

I know in my parks, we're still having good times. We have had very few people not pay, but people are keeping in communication. Apr, this may change in May, what we're definitely doing is waving people's late fees. But it's a case by case basis. People do have to pay, we are expecting payments coming in, we are going to work with people.

But for the most part, when I'm talking about buying and selling a home on payments, the folks that we're working with, they are bad things that happen to good people, and they may lose their job, but I'm always looking for people to keep and communicate.

to talk with me. My bill should be one of the highest on their list of priorities. we haven't had many people not pay and it's only April. I'm curious what May and June and July will bring, but we're going to work with people and as far as we can.

that's with the current properties that I have. When it comes to buying mobile homes. There's still sellers out there. I'd say that there are less sellers around the country. But depending on where you are anywhere from 20 to 40%. It's not there. Still Definitely sellers people want to sell.

we're already seeing a slight uptick in COVID reasons for why people will need to sell and evictions, court courts aren't even open yet, and people are still being forgiven on their payments. I'm curious to see what this wave is, how big this wave will get people in hardships.

But for right now already seeing it, people need to take care of their loved ones out of state. They thought they had a buyer and the buyer flaked out because they wanted to hold on to their money. Now the seller needs to sell even quicker than they thought or they lost their job.

I was just talking to two people who were husband and wife. Both diner employees both lost their jobs, they went down from 25 grand down to under seven grand, their most valuable asset, they just need to get rid of it and make some money. we're already seeing that.

Now the difference though, so I think that there will be this kind of wave of homes for sale. But there's a difference now versus like back in 2009 to 2010 There's more investors looking at this, you said it before, there's more mobile home park investors, and there's more individual mobile home investors. A lot of people turned their nose up 20 years ago when I got started, but nowadays, it's like a thing of pride.

Like, I'm a mobile home investor, and that's awesome. But it's weird. it's, uh, it's good. But it's, anyway, what I'm saying is there is I think there's going to be this wave of sellers, but I think there's going to be buyers to meet it.

as a mobile as an individual, mobile home investor, for folks listening, how to be prepared for that is we're still going to have to move quickly. I don't think we're going to get any more amazing deals that we're already getting, but I think there's just going to be more of them. act quicker.

There's still gonna be buyers out there. I can talk to you about buying when we're selling homes, there's still buyers, I got outbid. I lost the deal because I was too slow. Just yesterday, because there was a cash buyer and a home. I was going to buy it. That I lost out on. there's no buyers, there still is.

It depends on the local population as well. I'm here in Austin in the surrounding areas pretty. There's a lot of people, if you're in an area of 20,000 people, things have slowed down. But let's face it, it was probably pretty slow to begin with, but it's gone down, but it's still there.

There's still buyers and sellers for good deals, there's still people needing to sell for a variety of reasons. That was my long answer kind of what I'm seeing already. what I'm curious is going to come

Taylor   14:33  

nice. I appreciate that. you make a lot of great points there. I mean, you were around before the Great, great recession.

you've also experienced this change in popularity in mobile home parks as an asset class. Many people, for the most part seem to have lost a lot of that kind of shakiness about it and they realize that there's a, there's a lot of money in them and they're a good good potential. Return, I'd like to make sure we're addressing the mobile home parks that you have acquired and the strategies that you're using now.

I mean, this is passive wealth strategies for busy professionals, not everybody out there wants to go buy it themselves, they might want to invest in a syndication or be a money partner or something like that. Invest in the park, but not be the guy running the show.   let's address that and what you're doing and how people kind of can kind of break in.

John Fedro  15:32  

Most of the folks I deal with are folks that want to have some sort of boots on the grounds in some capacity. As far as the syndication goes, or lending money, I do have I am starting to dabble in that myself, but I would feel on.

I definitely don't know enough to,  to say anything of what I've been doing. Most of what I do, and it's Because it's what I've done and what I've experienced in boots on the ground is talking to the people is making a name for yourself. Now I believe in outsourcing.

I do not want to make any more or work than myself and I have to, but as far as the syndication goes, and if you're busy, that's understandable if you only have five or 10 hours a week, you can prioritize that time. But yeah, as far as that, which we can talk about, but as far as syndication goes, I don't want to pretend I know more than I do for that.

Taylor   16:29  

So are you? This is one of the things that comes up with very successful investors. There's kind of a mix as to who is bringing in outside investment, whether through money loans, or syndication or whatever, and who can fund their own business based on the model. it sounds like you're not bringing in outside investment into your investments or your company or you run it all yourself.

John Fedro  16:55  

So he is not right now knocking on wood. That is what's happening.

rate through owner financing. I do have one or two partners that I work with and we'd go  pretty equal on but that will eventually end and I will need private money and I do have some private money lined up. There's also bank financing which 10 years ago there was very limited bank financing and now it seems like there is money well, we'll see what happens in the next few months.

But  there's certainly money out there for remote mobile home parks, but no, eventually I will absolutely need private money and then I will but Now luckily I am online and I have more of a presence which I guess other folks don't don't have. Maybe private money comes to me a little bit more easily.

But I haven't had to cross too much of that having to tackle that tumor too. Too much yet.

Taylor   17:48  

Okay. Okay. Well, I think that's one of the things that  comes up well in the mobile home park space,  the deals are smaller. There is a lot of owner financing and Just more deals get done without outside investment.  Many of my friends who invested in mobile home parks are interested in syndication but they're able to close deals through owner financing and through those great bank loans that are available. They just haven't needed it yet. Even though passive investors want to get in the game, it's, it's hard to do. So

John Fedro  18:25  

It's important to know about what will make somebody happy or what people's goals are. I am staying quite busy with individual mobile homes, inside of parks and on private land. I only want to purchase one to two parks a year.

it's really I mean there's a lot of people out there that want to do five and 10 and 20 and they are doing that and I'm just I'm  I want I don't know if I want to do that to be honest with you one to two parks until I die is  perfect for me and I can wrap my head around that and I can outsource it and I understand it.

that's okay for me and I don't so maybe that goes kind of goes into if I was a bigger fish or had more aggressive dreams I would definitely need

Unknown Speaker  19:11  

to syndicate more

Taylor   19:13  

hmm interesting okay we're always looking to shed light on you know there are folks who are bringing in outside investment don't but don't even really advertise it. you know when next time we have you on down the future when you're actually buying three or four parks a year you're gonna say I don't know why I wasn't buying.

John Fedro  19:33  

I don't mean to put that

me in the past didn't know what I was talking about. We'll see.

Taylor   19:42  

So you also mentioned you're in a couple of markets, Texas and Florida and maybe others are huge in Texas is huge. sounds like the Austin area but I'm sure the market dynamics between the two of those are very different.

I mean, Florida has got a lot more natural disasters and Things like that. I mean, can you expound on ways that the market has impacted your mobile home investments

John Fedro  20:09  

around the country? Not so much when it comes to the weather, the time of the year a bit. We're still looking for a deal when it comes to a mobile home in a park.

This is our litmus test of if we're probably going to do it or not, we want to make when we sell this 90% of the 80% of the time we're selling on payments, if we're selling for all cash, if we buy a home and sell it for cash, we're looking to double our money or better, but on payments, which is what we do mostly around the country. You're looking to get all your money back 100% ROI in six to 12 months or less.

You're going to get a down payment or a move in fee from your buyer and you're going to get monthly payments for 12 months.

That should equal the amount that you have in or more And that's what works. you should get all your money back in one one year or less or less $300 a minimum cash flow after you pay the lot rent $300 cash flow and five years minimum payments when we're selling these homes now, and the numbers vary a bit, but that's what we're shooting for. around the country, yes, there's natural disasters.

Yes, there's even things that are happening,  natural disasters, cause ripple issues down the road,  something happens with the park and now those people have to go somewhere else. it causes prices to change and refer for various reasons. But no, we're still looking for that good deal.

Insurance exists for a reason. Some of my properties and other people I've worked with have gotten destroyed and insurance exists for a reason. Now we try to disclose everything to all of our buyers But no, it's not so much the area, it's the resale numbers.

It's popular there's a lot more that goes into it, but the area Like isn't doesn't matter so much. As long as there's buyers and as long as there's buyers and really you'd have to be in like the middle of nowhere or maybe Flint, Michigan when it was  in order for like there to be no buyers but there's always buyers especially when it's payments cashes here or there but for payments there was all this always buyers.

Taylor   22:21  

Interesting, okay. I always like to try to pull out how the market and  geographically and both just the broader market as well can really impact these assets or not. that's interesting. It's driven in that way. So

John Fedro  22:36  

I'd say with parks, I just don't have enough experience as well. I'd have to think about that more to say okay, well, this is different. I mean, Florida, just the land value is more because they're not making any more and you're paying a premium just for the land value.

But no, besides that, there's I'd have to think about that for like, Parks but the individual homes, no, it's not the area doesn't matter to to Too much unless it's snowing or there's that and we got to check different things and usually full steam if the deal makes sense. If the numbers make sense. It's it's a go. he

Taylor   23:11  

said something very important there that that definitely comes up when we talk about mobile home parks that they're not building anymore. I mean, really anywhere, there's a couple that are being built for,  kind of nicer community, things like that. And, and I know you're buying primarily just the homes, not so much the parks, but it still impacts your supply. Right, when there's supplies not expanding, it's only really contracting.  How do you see that impacting your business moving forward over the next,  five to 10 years if the world is if the markets are always shrinking? And that adds up over time.

John Fedro  23:50  

Assuming, excuse me, in mobile home parks, they're not subsidized by the government. They mean there's such an important Low affordable housing opportunity. You have investors that want to build parks, you have people that want to buy homes and move them into those parks.

It's just the municipalities that are not putting out permits. It's the government. It's, I mean, if there was a switch where Okay, parks were,  good to go. I think that there'd be a lot more parks, I think people would be building them and it would be quite different. I think that'd be a good thing.

I'm, I kind of think that that will eventually happen. I'm not sure what will happen or change in this world, but eventually, somehow we'll all get behind it. Why weren't we doing this years ago? But yes, if that did stay where just the every year there's less and less parks, not only is there less and less parks, but the people that created those parks are now in their 70s 80s 90s. They're getting older.

It's that cliche story, where they're selling and then they sell it to who knows another mom and pop or more likely an investor like us, we Want to bring in new homes, we want to increase the price. We want to maybe keep it for a couple years and then sell it for a big profit, a lot. rents are going up, prices are going up. Parks are consolidating, especially the bigger ones into a handful of really big owners.

It's going to just like Self Storage is sort of now doing so. It's gonna change things and for folks watching right now, whether you're buying homes or parks, get them while you can,  I do it, because things are changing. I mean, it's not gonna be a decade before you know any area.

Yeah, I mean, you still have time, but it's time to tell. I'm curious to see that as well.

Taylor   25:40  

Yeah, that's an interesting point that it's an aging, owner population. then these folks are going to keep getting older and older and, and get out of the game. I mean, the couple of parks that I've looked at and talked to the owners of they were older people who are really toward the end of when they want to To be messing around with the park.

they were looking to get out Muslim that I talked to weren't quite to that point where they're like, Alright, I officially need out of this, but they will be within the next 10 years. It's only a matter of time Really? Yeah.

John Fedro  26:18  

Interesting. even if they don't need to get out, maybe they can. Maybe they can partner with you. Maybe you can take some stuff off their shoulder or some weight or they just would like maybe they're not totally utilizing all the park and they know they're getting older and they got 20 empty spaces and there's something you can do together and so

Taylor   26:36  

that that goes back to that creativeness that is important to success in the business. I appreciate that. Right now. We're gonna take a quick break for our sponsor.

All right, john, I've got three questions. I asked every guest on the show.

Are you ready? Oh, I'm ready for you. All right. First one, what's the best investment you ever made other than in your education?

John Fedro  27:02  

You must have been tired of getting that answer.

 it's probably if I looked at the numbers, I mean, it'd be at home that I got for next to nothing. then I did very little work and I put somebody into it. But honestly, probably that first deal that I did, we didn't go into the story. But I was, I was driving to my very first mobile home that I was going to buy, didn't even know hadn't even been in a mobile home before.

I don't maybe once in my life, but it was my first deal. I had the option right before I was going to go home, I got sick, and I threw up and I'm like, do I What do I do? I stay in the car I probably do. I just went into it, and I got it.

if I hadn't gone to that appointment, I don't think I would have given up. But I don't maybe I wouldn't be here today. it's probably cliche as well, but that and by the way, that first one was a really, really good deal. If I sold it on payment, but it just opened my eyes and I had it for like 10 years and sold that a couple times and over 10 years. Anyway.

Taylor   27:58  

Thanks. That's great. I think There's another lesson in there as well that you did the thing that you didn't really want to do. You did the hard thing that, you know you thought in your head. I gotta get out of this. 

you said you screw up but you thought about getting out but you didn't do it. You went for it. it worked out. We had the best investment. Next one. This one's a little tougher on the other side of the coin. What is the worst investment you've ever made? Oh, yeah.

John Fedro  28:28  

The first thing that came to mind, which is not the answer, but it's like the ones and it hasn't happened, it's happened enough. But it's like a deal I've passed on where I was too firm. I was too greedy.

I was holding on to my before I bought it, I didn't buy it. then someone else came in and I lost the deal, of course, and I'm kicking myself, but that wasn't a deal. I didn't actually do it. and one time I got lucky because it was actually a mold house. I was glad I didn't buy it anyway.

The worst deal I would do or I would think that I've done. It's always when I've deviated from mobile home. Investing, when I've tried single families on a new build when I've tried to go after Hurricane homes after Katrina and Mississippi, when I've tried to do other things and partner with people that I have no idea about, and I'm just greedy, and I'm like, Oh, that's a new thing that I'm hearing about.

if they're doing it, I can do it and, and so it's been doing that I've lost money, I've lost some credit. just assuming things just partnering with people taking it out of my control. Maybe that's why I don't like to syndicate or something like taking it out of my control is, as always, usually screwed.

Taylor   29:34  

So you want to stick to your lane, I definitely appreciate that. My favorite question at the end of the show is what is the most important lesson that you've learned in business and investing?

John Fedro  29:47  

Okay, so what's coming to mind now, and may change in five minutes, but it's to really ask questions. It's to really be a sponge. If you plan on doing something in this area, There's so many things to do. Ask So many questions to who you can. Not only will that answer more questions and weird questions, well, if this happened, what about this? It'll help you learn more.

Hopefully that answer will lead you to another question which will lead to another answer which will lead to another question and all the people you're talking to, that's people that you're talking to. Some of them are going to be jerks, but you'll meet friendship, some really cool people, one thing leads to another, so it's like it's just not being passive, not being tiptoe not  in school. I remember being afraid to raise my hand and as adults we still feel that that's ridiculous. we want to learn about this niche that we want to learn about.

You got to be a sponge and ask questions. Don't be afraid to embarrass yourself. Don't make any dumb decisions or stupid financial Miss,  things are rush, but ask a lot of questions.

Taylor   30:49  

I like that. I think that you said don't make any dumb decisions. The ask a lot of questions can prevent a lot of those dumb decisions, ask dumb questions, and you might Avoid dumb decisions. I think this happened to me before. I like that.

Thanks, john. If folks want to get in touch with you and learn more about what you do and talk about mobile home parks and mobile home investing, where can they reach you?

John Fedro  31:17  

all over the internet, but mobile home investing dotnet is a good source of free and mobile home information resources. A lot of videos and free training go out that is a fantastic URL

Taylor   31:32  

to grab. Want to grab mobile home investing dotnet

John Fedro  31:36  

almost got the.com

Taylor   31:39  

Well, john, thanks for joining us once again. I really appreciate it. I think mobile homes and mobile home parks are a great strategy that obviously  I don't know the ugly stepchild for for a long, long time. things have obviously changed at least in the eyes of investors. 

Maybe things will change in the eyes. of zoning departments and we'll start seeing some new ones who know who knows what's gonna happen. But thank you for bringing these lessons to us today. Really appreciate it to everybody out there. Thank you for tuning in.

If you're enjoying the show, please leave us a rating and review on Apple podcasts very much appreciated, helps other people learn about the show. If you know anyone who could use a little bit more passive wealth in their lives, please share the show with them and bring them into the tribe.

Thanks for tuning in. Once again, hope you have a great day and a great rest of your week and we'll talk to you on the next episode. Bye bye