Proven Passive Income for Physicians with Dr. Vanessa Peters

Full Transcript

Taylor   0:02

Welcome to passive wealth strategies for busy professionals. Thank you for tuning in. Today our guest is Vanessa Peters. But as a has a great book out the busy professionals guide to passive real estate investing. She's been on the show before, we're having her back on to talk about all those great topics and she has a lot more to discuss with us today that we didn't cover on the last appearance. I got a lot of great feedback from listeners that asked if she would come back on the show again, so I'm happy to have her back on the show.

For those of you who missed her first appearance on the show, She is the founder of VMD investing and she has been investing in real estate for 10 years, including single family homes, commercial retail, apartment communities, self storage and manufactured home communities, also called mobile home parks. She's invested in over 2500 units across six properties and two funds.

She's passionate about helping busy professionals build wealth through passion Passive income producing real estate that provides attractive returns and a proven roadmap to financial freedom. We talked about some of her interesting experiences, investing in things that went well and things that didn't go well in the last interview. Once you're done with this, I highly, highly encourage you to go back and listen to the interview. It was published in September of 2019. definitely recommend you go back and listen to that.

She earned her medical degree at the University of Calgary, Alberta in Canada. She also has a thriving full time family practice in Escondido, California. She is a doctor so we're getting into that doctor personal finance topic today. She's very involved in her community and is a board member at interfaith Community Services.

She lives in Escondido, California, with her husband and son and got to talk with her husband a little bit the last time we recorded and it sounds like things are going well there. Vanessa Thank you for coming back on the show today. happy to talk with you again.

Vanessa Peters  2:02

Oh, thank you for inviting me back. I'm very excited.

Taylor   2:05

So, you know, it's been a couple months since we last spoke. Like I said, I got a lot of positive feedback from listeners about your last appearance on the show.

But for folks who didn't hear I gave you a little introduction. But what are you doing right now in real estate?

Vanessa Peters  2:22

Well, right now I continue to invest in multifamily syndications, when I can find an appropriate deal they are getting a little harder to find. I'm also still pretty bullish on self storage and hope to get into another fund or maybe a single asset play like a JV with some partners. I'm also dabbling in short term real estate. I purchased a condo in Maui a couple of months ago.

I'm not passive. But I just thought it might be fun because we do enjoy going to Maui so it is a good income producer as well as some They said we can go as a family. , and then focusing on the book and launching the book right now.

Taylor   3:07

That's great. That's great. And, you know, I'm glad you brought up the short term rentals Airbnb model. A lot of people are familiar with that. Whether we stay in Airbnb, or we know people who are doing the Airbnb strategy, but if you watch anybody that does it, you know, most people, like you said, are not passive in that type of investment.

like I said, during the introduction, your book is the busy professionals guide to passive real estate investing. Let's define some terms here to you, you know, what do you define as a busy professional, we'll break it down.

Vanessa Peters  3:40

So again, busy professionals, someone who generally will be working full time and their job is, you know, taking a lot of their time, either mentally or physically, and they have to either be in the office, or they work long hours. That's a busy professional to me.

Taylor   3:56

Not a lot of time leftover for anything other than you know. Family and maybe a hobby. What about passive real estate is another topic we talked about before, but people tend to make mistakes, like you said about the short term rental people mistake, all real estate for being just passive real estate. But what's the difference? What is really passive in real estate?

Vanessa Peters  4:19

Yeah, yeah. Well, the IRS unfortunately defines most real estate as passive, which isn't really fair, because it's not. But they had passed a law in the 80s that stated that all rental income was passive unless you're a real estate professional, which is a shame for those people that are busy professionals, because back in that day, you know, my financial advisor told me he would tell doctors and dentists to go and buy 10 homes and that would literally wipe out their w two mouth.

But now you have a very low threshold for using those deductions, those passive losses. passive investing is where you are not actively the owner of the building or the property, you have not got a mortgage on the property, didn't sign for the loan and you have limited liability. You don't make decisions on the property, nobody's calling you to make any kind of decisions or fix anything or pay for anything. Once you have invested in this type of a deal, that is truly passive. All of your work is up front you need to do your due diligence on the deal.

Make sure that you like it that you trust the operator that you trust your connection with the operator. You've you know, reviewed the numbers as much as you care to and then you wire your money you signed the ppm the private placement memorandum and you wire your money and literally the only work you have to do after that is to check and make sure that the direct deposit or the check came in the mail and review the financials quarterly and hopefully get monthly updates from your from your connection with the operator.

Taylor   5:54

good summary I stated this on the show before I hate wiring money even if I know for a fact that's going to the right place, I still hate doing it. It's throwing a ball over a fence and hoping it lands in, you know, the right yard or the right bucket. But it's a reality of what we do in real estate.

And, you know, I wanted to we talked before we started recording, you mentioned the fire movement, and I want to make sure we bring that up and and compare and contrast, you know, your values and strategy to maybe the values and the strategy and strategy of the fire movement in general that for those who are not aware that's financially independent, retire early, or financial independence, retire early, you can break it out a bunch of ways. There's a lot of interest in that for busy professionals who want to retire early. And, you know, what does that mean to you? What do you think about it? And, you know, let's get into it.

Vanessa Peters  6:49

Sure. I, about eight years ago, five to eight years ago, I went on a kick. I mean, maybe that's when fire really kind of took off, but I started to read about it. I wasn't sure I really wanted to retire early, but I wanted to have lots of money. do it.

This was before I really got back into real estate. As I told you before, in the previous episode, I bought a single family home in 2008, which went really well. But I kind of didn't think about real estate for another 10 years. This was before I was back in real estate and I wanted to accumulate a lot of wealth and became very interested in the idea of a fire movement. So much so that I, you know, became obsessed with being frugal and buying all kinds of books that are, you know, how to save money on groceries.

I think one was called America's cheapest family. I mean, literally, and, and I was reading all kinds of ways to save energy. I bought one of those energy meters that you plug into outlets, and then you plug into the appliance, and I had a spreadsheet where I was recording How much toaster used and how much the blow dryer used and how much my husband's musical equipment.

I also started tracking our energy use on the home as a whole with the meter and we got solar panels, which was awesome. But we weren't covering all of our energy uses with the solar panels. I was I was kind of getting in a little deep with that and sort of losing the forest for the trees because or the other way around, maybe trees for the forest, but I found that I was nickel and diming everything and not wanting to spend five bucks or 10 bucks and maybe we should cancel Netflix or something like that, when we're talking about saving millions of dollars to retire, you know, and the fire movement.

Sometimes people mention that they get to a million and then they retire well. I don't really want to retire and live frugally from the age of 49. Which, you know, a lot of people seem okay with. But you know, my expenses are more than that right now. I can't imagine if I retired now and only had $5,000 to live off of a month, you know, that wouldn't that wouldn't be okay. I mean, fat fire is another term out there, which is basically retiring early, but with a really good income. I'm more about that. But even more so I think a lot of busy professionals still like what they do. so they don't necessarily want to retire, quote, unquote.

I think there's great value in trying to have fun now and distribute many retirements throughout your working life so that you can continue to be rejuvenated and enjoy your work. The beauty of having a passive income that says covers most or maybe you know, three quarters of your kind of basic expenses. It allows you to get out there and enjoy the world and then work because you choose to not because you have to

Taylor   10:00

I think it's definitely interesting. I went through my own little, you know, time of trying to be very frugal as well, years ago. Well, initially right after I got out of college and started having some money, and I decided I'm going to hoard this and not spend it and my accounts were correspondingly larger as a result of that, but ultimately, if you're not, when you're living that way, you're not living a life of abundance.

You're not, you know, probably not really enjoying yourself. I don't know, some people can certainly be happy living that way, but not everyone can and I think we need to delineate between turning the thermostat down to 61 degrees to save a little bit of energy in the winter and, you know, cut your cost that way from let's not be foolish with our money and, you know, the lottery is never a good investment. I think their advice is probably relevant to some people whose money is really not right. But for the purposes of discussion, we're talking about people who are making, you know, good money, accredited investors who are looking to plan for that retirement down the road and not necessarily trying to retire next year, two years from now,

Vanessa Peters  11:14

right. The other thing is that, you know, they have the book out there, I think the latter factor, things like that. those, again, are small dollars. so for those of those of us who are high earners, being extremely frugal isn't going to move the needle as much as really a couple other things. One of which is making great investments that get you better than 8%, which is you know, real estate syndications provide, you know, on average 20% cash on cash return, it's gone, it's going down a little bit but so, you know, you want to make your money work for you harder and smarter and, and then the other thing is tax.

you know, when your investments are tax leveraged and aren't taxed on capital gains, and when you keep more of what you earn, you're essentially making more right out of the gate. that will make such a big difference to your net worth compared to scrimping and saving on electricity or things like that. Or the coffee.

Taylor   12:10

Yeah, you're focused on it's more of a focus on growing your income than trying to cut your expenses down as low as possible. Because there's only so low you can really go I mean, you can't. You can't possibly spend zero dollars on your life and you keep cutting things away that you enjoy, then you're not enjoying your life.

Vanessa Peters  12:30

Right? And you know, I'm not talking about having a, you know, 5000 square foot house and a housekeeper you know, and several nice cars, just living a modest life but enjoying it, you know, if it's important to you to have a nice car then then get it. But the way that I bought my car after having my old car for 14 years, was I waited until I had passive income that would cover the payment. you know, and because it's a business, I didn't have to pay tax, you know, on the interest and You know, the payments were deductible and things like that.

if you know, it was nice to have that payment covered by passive income. I wasn't I felt like I deserved it at that point instead of buying a nice car when you first get out of school when you've got a lot of other debt,

Taylor   13:15

yeah. This kind of leads into the topic of lifestyle creep that a lot of high income earners tend to you know, can false fall prey to or however you want to think about it and you know, golden handcuffs or however whatever you want to term that or call that.

What do you think about you? How can we fix that? I mean, there there are folks out there who are have already, their lifestyles already crapped and they need to winnow it back and there are folks out there, you know, I know that are a couple of physicians that listen, who are on the younger side that are aware of that lifestyle creep and need to avoid it.

From your perspective, as a doctor, I'm sure you've seen a lot of your colleagues' lives, you know, creep upward over time, and maybe some of them have successfully, you know, cut it back. Let's get into that topic of lifestyle creep for the high income earner. What are you know, what are your thoughts there, educate me on that.

Vanessa Peters  14:15

Yeah. I think that you got to start with your house because it's the biggest expense we're going to have. And, you know, if you buy an expensive home, and I live in Southern California and San Diego, it's expensive to buy houses here. But I've seen my colleagues buy homes that were too big and, you know, lose them in the downturn, you know, 1012 years ago, unfortunately. then others who are so they have such massive mortgages that they don't have any money left to invest in real estate right now.

kind of missing the boat, I feel. I would say that, you know, you need to not get a ginormous house. You don't need a giant house, and when I go to their house, yeah, I'm a little jealous of that. They've got the master bedroom that's like, as big as all three of the bedrooms in my house. Half room that's as big as my bedroom.

the closet, you know, yes, those are nice things to have. But, again, going back to earning passive income, I can justify stuff, if I have some passive income to support it. If it's just a liability, which your home is a liability. It shouldn't take up, you know, three quarters or you know, or I don't know, what percentage would be it depends on how much you earn but it shouldn't be $5,000 a month mortgage that's way way too much. You know, and there's a lot of people out there that spend that here in Southern California

Taylor   15:40

that's that's an incredible amount of money to spend on a mortgage to me So have you from your observation is that the sounds like that's the biggest mistake that a lot of say doctors tend to make it's it's first it's the house then it what comes next is it the cars for men is it you know, other stuff stereotypical things for women and what is it? It?

Vanessa Peters  16:02

Yeah, it's basically you buying a nice house. of course, along with the house comes your electricity and your water. That's expensive here and then you've got a pool which you have to heat and then go to a solar panel and then you have to maintain it. you need a gardener and you probably need a housekeeper.

you've got a whole lot of help that comes along with it. then all of a sudden, it goes from this much to this much, you know, 25% more, and then you're in a nice neighborhood. your neighbors all have Tesla's and Range Rovers, you know, God, you don't wanna be driving your Nissan around so you get a nice car. And, and then, if you're lucky, you're in a neighborhood which has good public schools.

But that's the next thing is if your neighborhood doesn't have the best schools, then you need to go to maybe a private school and there are some very expensive prep schools out there. not even all prep schools, some of the Christian Schools. They're like $9,000 a year and people are paying this from You know, grade school and up and it gets more expensive as you get older into high school. It's like 1520 I mean, I can't even fathom spending that much on a child's education and then not even in college yet. Those are the big three expenditures: cars, education and in your house.

Taylor   17:20

Interesting. have you found that are people more willing to say move into you know, sell the house move into something smaller and maybe instead of drive the you know, Model X all tricked out switch to a model three, you know, how, how willing are people to, so to speak compromise on their children's education? I mean, I went to public school fine, you know, I had no problems, but you know what, what tends to be less negotiable than others?

Vanessa Peters  17:54

I haven't seen a lot of people downsizing. no, I see older people downsize sizing, you know, that's normal, but I don't see the professionals downsizing.

Taylor   18:05

So is it  I suppose the solution is, don't let your lifestyle creep in the first place because it's easier. Absolutely.

Vanessa Peters  18:13

Once you've got the nice neighborhood, you've got the kids in school and you really, you don't want to uproot them. it's, it's hard. It's hard to go down instead of up because that's what we've been taught is that you buy a starter home and then you get a nice big home after that.

Taylor   18:30

Yeah, that's interesting. I suppose that makes Yeah, that makes a lot of senses. It's harder to give up what you have than it is to not, you know, bias that stuff in the first place. Do you think? I mean, there's this topic that comes up and you know, I've seen with some of my friends when my friends is a an ER doctor friend from jujitsu, and, you know, this guy, I don't know what hours he works, but he's, I think the chief of medicine and The doctor, he's got a high up position. When I see him at the gym, he's pale as a ghost because he just got off a, you know, 24 hour shift where there wasn't a break. you know, I have use, I can't imagine that he's gonna want to do that until he's in his 50s. You know, then start thinking about how am I going to prepare for retirement at that point? So, you know, have you seen a lot of burnout among doctors? And, you know, are they preparing adequately for being burned out down the road and saying, I want to get out of this, but they aren't financially prepared.

Vanessa Peters  19:40

Mm hmm. Yeah, unfortunately, burnout is a massive problem. in the US right now. 50% of doctors show at least one symptom of burnout. And, you know, burnout is, you know, just having an attitude that maybe you're not making a difference. feel kind of hopeless about life and your work and your business. feeling depressed and being the position leader at my group, you know, I'm sort of responsible for the happiness of the doctors.

so I've asked them how they're feeling. Unfortunately a lot of them are in hospital settings as well as outpatient settings. They're there, they're not as happy as they should be, I would like to see them happier. The reason is, especially because they have a high burnout rate because they do work, super fast paced, long hours. it's hard to maintain that over time. the outpatient Doc's where we are, you know, meaning to see four patients an hour, it just isn't enough time. When you spend as much time documenting after in the chart, as you did with the patient, you know, it gets tough and then there's all the paperwork on top of it and things like that. I mean, so from a system standpoint, I I'm trying my best to maybe create some ways at work that we can work less hard, but the system is the system and we can pay to see patients and so the clinics want you to see lots of patients And unfortunately, I feel like we don't feel like we have choices. the other thing is that we're so busy all the time that when you're done with work, you certainly aren't going to go pick up a book on investing.

You know, you're just going to do what your financial advisor recommends you do, which is maxed out your 401k. You know, maybe you have an HSA account you can put money into, and then if there's enough in there, you can invest it, but that's not very much money every year, 6000 or something. there's not a lot of alternative ideas out there. I think a lot of Doc's put their money into movie CDs or money market accounts, if they like the stock market, they might put their money in there, but what are you putting it in after the 401k? You know, I don't, I don't feel like I know the stock market well enough to start choosing stocks. You know, I've got my little 401k with, you know, the index fund in there, but I certainly don't want to put a whole ton of money in there. But what else are you gonna do? You're busy, you've got your family. Hopefully you have a couple hobbies or you're exercising, that doesn't leave a lot of room unless you're in a lot of People know that real estate is a good way to make money, but how the heck do you get started?

Taylor   22:04

That's a tough question. I mean, that if anybody you know, anybody out there is in bigger pockets, that question literally comes up 10s of times a day. then it's been addressed many, many times, but, you know, people don't even know where to start in the sense of, you know, where to search for the answer, you know, let alone an answer that they feel is tailored to their specific their situation in that, you know, I'm a doctor high income and I'm sick of it, or I'm going to be sick of it, I think in probably five years. how do I kind of plan my escape and you mentioned that you're working on some ways in in your world, for the folks on your your charge to, you know, keep them satisfied, what have you done or implemented to, you know, improve their way of life because you can't, you can't change the overall system, but there's probably some things that you know, you can do, hopefully there's some things that you can do to make their lives better. What have you done?

Vanessa Peters  23:03

Well, the sabbatical was something I implemented a sabbatical policy at work so that you have the opportunity as one of our senior physicians to take six weeks off every five years. , I mean, in the big picture, maybe it isn't much, but having the trip of a lifetime in your 40s instead of waiting until your late 60s, I think that's a big deal, especially if your kids are young. Because in your 60s, obviously, your kids are going to be grown and they probably don't want to travel with you for six weeks through Europe. Hope they don't.

Taylor   23:35

Right.

Vanessa Peters  23:36

And so that's one thing I've done. I've also increased the PTO or the unpaid time off actually, for some of the senior Doc's. I'm working on models to take some of the administrative load off the physicians, because even though we're a physician in a group, we still have the doctors do a lot of work that isn't in the highest and best use with their license.

How do we make money? We see patients. How do we not make money by filling out forms by signing off stuff and, you know, doing a lot of busy work, which has to be done, but there's our folks in the office who can help with that. I'm implementing a care team model whereby we'll have a little bit of additional support staff and an advanced practitioner which is like a PA or a nurse practitioner that kind of pairs up with two or three Doc's and takes some of their workload off them so they can see more patients and hopefully be happier about it.

Taylor   24:32

As far as it's a very business owner, probably Kiyosaki type of mentality that you're going to have the higher paid higher, earning people focusing on the thing that's going to make the business the most money and put a system in place that will kind of cover some of those lower dollar per hour tasks with lower dollar per hour labor that you know, those folks are probably still paid pretty well but not nearly as high as a doctor. then the doctors aren't like you said they're, they're putting their time to the highest and best use which is seeing patients.

Vanessa Peters  25:09

Correct and we get to charge more for doctors seeing patients rather than an AP For example, I didn't invent it you know, it's out there but I'm just working on implementing it. Nice

Taylor   25:18

Nice. I want to circle back up to this you know, how do you get started? topic How do you get started as a real estate investor? topic and maybe if we can, you know, put some some hard figures on it because if you say it's hard to come up with something blanket but if you say, all right, max out your 401k IRA, there's a hard number we know what the maxing out of the 401k is Max, all your HSA, okay, that's a number those come from the government.

But if physicians get started figuring out how to become a real estate investor, you suggest investing in syndication, so you know, we can stick to that topic. for those who need more information as to why go listen to the other episode and you'll learn why. But what do you recommend, as far as you know, people getting their feet in the water or you know, timeframes? Or how much money should they have? You're ready to get invested. for the sake of argument, let's say, you know, we're talking to an accredited investor, somebody who can invest in 506 B and 506 C, syndication. How do they get started?

Vanessa Peters  26:25

Yeah. The accredited investor status is important because most of the deals do require to be an accredited investor even if they're 506 B, which technically allows 35 non accredited investors. The operators I've been working with haven't been allowing non accredited unfortunately. But I think they're changing the rules. There's some talk of like, making them a little more lacks so that other people can get in, like you can be more of a sophisticated investor but the 506 b deals do require a prior substantial relationship with the operator So that's really important to know, you can be ready to jump in on a deal.

But first of all you have to know about it. you have to know the operator first. if you wait until the last minute and say, say for example, you're on my investor list and I send out a monthly update or a newsletter, and then I sent out a deal alert, hey, there's a great deal and in Austin, Texas for this apartment complex, and then you contact me and you're like, this is it. I want to invest. I'm ready. I've researched this operator.

I like the returns. I like the location. I like the deal. But I don't know you, so you can't. it's really important to establish relationships with a couple of different people in the field. Before you want to invest. This is 506 B. Five will succeed is different. You'll see those advertised and you can invest in those, but you do need to be proven that you are an accredited investor. Usually, most operators require $50,000 for the first deal, sometimes they allow 20 5000 for the second deal, but most of them are 50 K.

If you have that on hand, that's a good place to get started and get your feet wet. really, there's no better way to start learning really, truly about investing and actually doing it. having, you know, the old, the old analysis paralysis and, you know, talking to a bunch of people analyzing a bunch of deals and looking at them but never pulling the trigger, you'll never learn as well as if you actually invest in a deal because then you're going to be completely you have skin in the game, obviously.

so you're going to read the ppm differently than if you're just kind of scanning it thinking about it. You'll look at the numbers, you'll look at the sensitivity analysis if you're into that stuff. so you'll learn a lot faster. At the end of the day, if you're an accredited investor $50,000 It seems like a lot of money but you can earn it back, you know, and the chance of losing your money in these deals is so absolutely remote. It might not hit the targets if we hit a massive downturn, but you're not going to lose your money. was your initial principal?

Taylor   29:02

Hopefully not as long as they know, as long as you don't lose the property, then theoretically, you shouldn't lose your investment. But I think you brought up a good point in the potential for loss and the fear of loss prevents everyone, all of us who are humans from doing a lot of things. That can sometimes include investing in a real estate deal and like you said, for an accredited investor, $50,000 I mean, let's be real $50,000 is a lot of money. But for someone who meets the accredited definition, they're going to get it back. you know, if a deal goes completely south and belly up and all that then Alright, yeah, that sucks, but it's not the end of the world. But how do we I mean, this this topic has been covered up and down, but how do we make sure as syndication investors especially first time that we're not going to get swindled you know, we're we're investing with somebody that isn't gonna you know, Go to the Cayman Islands with our money and disappear forever. Yeah, I mean, when you're getting started, that's a tough question, what do you do?

Vanessa Peters  30:07

Absolutely.

you know, I always recommend that the team is the most important part of the deal. It doesn't matter if it's a great location, if the numbers are amazing. Yeah, if the building is beautiful, it doesn't matter if the team isn't someone that is trustworthy. How do you figure that out? Is the question you need to develop relationships with people. the team should have a track record, obviously, and they should have transparency. you should be able to look at their previous deals, and hopefully get to talk to them. Hopefully, you know, you have something that you can listen to while speaking. If they have, you know, podcast episodes, you can listen to that super helpful, that kind of thing.

I always recommend trying to get to know the operator a little bit. if you're a you know, someone who's like for example, I work With different operators, and so I'm your liaison through the operator. so then you get to know me, and then, you know, I can assure you, you know, have invested in five deals with this operator, and they're doing extremely well. nobody wants to be the first one to invest with an operator, or someone who just got out of the course, and they're all fired up about it. That's awesome.

But I'm not going to invest with that person, because I need to see some numbers that they've performed well in the past before I invest with them. I always try to invest with my own money before I bring in any investors so that I know that they're going to be on the up and up as well. As you know, most people have good intentions, but sometimes it turns out that the business plan wasn't that well thought out. Maybe the numbers weren't. Maybe they made them too rosy. You know, that kind of thing?

Taylor   31:45

Yeah, now, it could even be softer things, how good is the communication? Are they proactive? Do they respond to emails, all of those very important things, you know, for as I think about This, I think that's actually the team aspect and the vetting. That's actually one of the advantages of the 506 B and confining yourself to the 506. b, rather than the 506. c in that, you say, Okay, I'm only going to do five or six B deals where I have to know the the sponsor beforehand, because I have to know the sponsor beforehand, and I'm not going to go to somebody I don't know, with a 506 c deal, who I don't know him from anybody else.

I don't know, his track record or her or whatever. that could be one of the advantages to saying, Okay, I'm going to stick to the 506 b deals where I have to know the sponsor first. that maybe potentially reduce some of that counterparty risk. Mm hmm. I don't know what your thoughts are about that.

Vanessa Peters  32:52

Yeah, I mean, the 506 C is definitely casting a wider net, you know, because they can advertise and they don't need to talk to you. You can literally sign up without talking to a single person. I prefer not to do it that way. Even on the Bible 65 or 60 deals that I've been in of course, I'm talking to people about it, but there is a way to do it without speaking to anybody. and so I agree there's a little bit more of a relationship. It's more relationship business with the Pio six p.

Unknown Speaker  33:20

Yeah, I find that to be I don't

Taylor   33:23

know, shocking that books invest in deals that they've never they never speak to the sponsor. I don't know for me it would have to be such a marginal amount of money at risk to not know the sponsor. I don't know man. I don't think I would do it. I like having that pre existing relationship. Well, that's

Vanessa Peters  33:45

like the the equity multiple and realty shares, you know, those are small amounts of money and those are reg a I think so they, you know, you're low risk because you're only putting a little bit in but that's what I dislike about it is that you don't Really get to talk to anybody or get to know anybody. There's a middleman between you and the operator.

Taylor   34:04

Yeah, yeah. regarding the passive income, the prospect of passive income through real estate, for busy professionals, busy, accredited professionals, we've talked about syndications. Are there other strategies that you find relevant or do you recommend that are passive that have passed past your passive cast?

Unknown Speaker  34:31

criteria?

Taylor   34:32

Yeah. Are there others that you would recommend? Clearly not buying single families? we've gone over that. Any others? There's just syndications?

Vanessa Peters  34:44

Well, I mean, theoretically, you could get some short term rentals and maybe have a property manager help you out with those. That's one way but again, you need to be really sure that you've got a good property manager there. I'm part of a mastermind, where there's some alternative Investments, which are interesting. I haven't done them yet. But there's some really interesting stuff out there. ATMs for example, something I'm looking into. But that's more to diversify, you know, so that I'm not too heavy in real estate. But they seem pretty passive. Still looking into it.

Taylor   35:19

Does that still fall under a 506? You know, syndication type of model, it's just a different asset to invest in.

Vanessa Peters  35:26

Actually, no, you buy the actual ATMs. it's actually an active, it's an active business. Technically, it's, it's the opposite, though, because it's classified as active but it's not. that that's a great thing because it's tax benefits, because it's an active business, but it's,  you know, the, the IRS allows you to claim it as an active business, but it's more passive in nature.

Taylor   35:52

Interesting. , I, as you're aware, and as listeners know, I asked every guest three questions at the end of the show, but I've asked you those questions already. anybody that wants to hear the three questions, go back and listen to our interview in September of 2019. You can hear the best investment, worst investment and the most important lesson she's learned in investing.

The answers are definitely very interesting and will give you a lot more information about why Vanessa recommends not buying single families and buying into syndication. definitely recommend you go back and listen to that. Kind of before we close out today, I know you had something to provide to our listener. tell us about that.

Vanessa Peters  36:40

Oh, sure. I would love it. If you could check out my first three chapters of my book for free a sneak peek of the book at VMD investing.com slash book. Also, there's another page VMD investing.com slash roadmap.

In the book. It outlines how you can invest in syndications. Once a year, say $100,000 a year, and how after eight years with certain assumptions, you would have over $100,000 in passive income if you reinvest it. This is the spreadsheet behind that. you can download the spreadsheet and play with it. it's really fun you can change the amounts from 25 K a year or 100 or 200 or whatever you think might be worth it and it goes up to 20 years and so it's pretty amazing if you're an investor dividends how much you can make.

Taylor   37:31

I think that's great. I've had feedback from listeners that really appreciated the roadmap and appreciated the spreadsheet as well. you know, folks should definitely check that out. There are others out there that have found a lot of use out of it. If you're a busy professional looking to make some forward projections, definitely check that out. Both vmdinvesting.com/book and vmdinvesting.com/roadmap.

Unknown Speaker  38:08

That or my email [email protected].

Taylor   38:12

Great. Great. Well, thanks for coming back again and talking with me. Both these interviews have been fantastic. I'm sure investors, investors and listeners will get a lot of value out of our conversation today. , thanks for coming back again.

Unknown Speaker  38:28

Thanks for having me back.

Taylor   38:29

All right, everybody out there. Thank you for tuning in. If you're enjoying the show, please leave us a rating on Apple podcast. I want to call it iTunes. I'm gonna bounce back and forth while I'm on that, but please leave us a rating review on Apple podcasts very much appreciated. If you know anyone out there who could use a little bit more passive wealth in their lives. Please share the show with them and bring them into the fold. I'm your host, Taylor LOTE, wishing you a great rest of your day and a great week and we'll talk to you on the next episode. Bye