How to Pivot in Real Estate with Brian Wagers
Brian. Thank you for joining us today.
Thanks for having me on again,
Taylor. Oh, man. It’s great talking with you. We’ve been on the line for a little over an hour here already and the time’s flying by. I thought we got to get some of this on tape for our listeners out there who don’t know about you and your background.
Can you tell us a bit about yourself and what you do?
Yeah. So I am a commercial real estate syndicator par with Pacific on apartments. I bought almost 500 units just myself and my father-in-law as a partner, as a capital partner. And I have the past year or so I’ve scaled into the syndication.
Versus a joint venture space. And that has been quite a ride, w I’ve more than doubled that 500, I’ve been involved in over a thousand units now in that year frame. I’ve done joint ventures. I’ve done syndications and it’s all been around multifamily value, add multifamily. Yeah, that’s what I do.
And that’s what I’ve been doing for the past five years.
Awesome. Awesome. And you know where it sounds like you’re really evolving your business and, you’ve, as you implied, you’ve been on the show before and you spoke at one of our monthly webinars. And I think our guests, or.
People who joined in, got a lot of great information, actual information out of that time together. Can you walk us through, getting started and then realizing maybe having a realization that you were going to pivot slash specialize in a different area in your investing business.
Yeah.
So getting started was me having my single-family home and I knew I wanted to scale faster than that. So multi-family was the avenue for me. I talk more about that on our last episode about the beginnings and, but yeah, so from that first single-family went into a 12 unit because I wanted the scale of ability and I wanted it to continue to grow faster.
And so for the 12 years, it evolved into almost 500 units. And that was me putting together the deal, putting together the lending, putting together insurance setting up vendors, setting up property management all assets, all facets of the act of peace. Besides the equity piece, I wasn’t in a position to put my equity in there.
That’s what. At first, my girlfriend’s dad now father-in-law was playing the role of the equity piece. In syndication or a lot of commercial real estate deals, the active investors get 20 to 25% of the deal. And the equity gets 80, 75% of the deal. And for me, In that first phase, I am the 20, the that whole 20 to 25.
So like I mentioned with the vendors and I’m putting together, I’m doing all of the active roles. I’d say about a year and a half ago. So about three and a half years into just doing these deals in my backyard. So for me, I got started in my backyard. That was where it made sense to me.
I could talk to brokers, I could go talk to local banks. I had a lot more control over that aspect. Yeah, I was doing the 50 unit deals, a couple a mayday, two-unit deal, 79 unit deal. And before that I knew I, I had what if I wanted to continue to scale, I was going to have to start doing these deals above a hundred units.
There are only so many units. Everyone I listened to on podcasts eventually evolves into that phase. I knew it was somewhere I had to go and I’m in Arkansas, I’m in Northwest Arkansas. I know that there are only so many apartments and my backyard. So I know at some point, I wasn’t thinking about that going in, three years in I’m thinking, okay, I’ve made some offers on some of these apartments deals before I’ve seen again, now five years in my backyard, I’ve I think I’ve made just about an offer on every apartment complex within a hundred-mile radius and more than once, so I think when I was sent to get those brought to me, I knew I had to start looking.
So we talked a little bit about meetups. I was going to Michael Blanca in particular, he has a good meetup. And then now undertone. And looking for operating partners. So I knew I had, if I wanted to go into a different market, I was probably going to have to partner up to continue to partner up and just look, I was looking for good operators in markets that I understood markets that I liked and more specifically operators that I trusted and saw their track record.
So that was. The phase that I knew, if I was going to work with another operator, I was probably going to have to pick something to focus on, as far as what aspect of that whole act of partnership. And for me, that was focusing on capital reasons. I liked talking to investors. I was an investor myself, and a lot of my deals.
Yeah. When I built up that 500 portfolios, I have 50 of those units. I was just a hundred percent me, the other 450 is me and my father-in-law, but 50 of those, I was on myself. So I could speak from them, building up that equity and wanting to place it somewhere. So I started to realize that I wanted to focus on the capital raising piece and talk to investors.
And I think with the operators in different markets, they would have a better handle on property management, close to them, or they would have a better handle on the local. The local quality of the deal. So for me, it just made sense to be focusing on the capital raising piece.
Okay. Okay. There are several things in there, and we’ve talked about how you attend these various events and you have, for years.
And I think one of the things that most of us observe who go to these events pretty consistently. Not a lot of people turn that education into action or results. And you’re one of the people that has done that. If that is indeed your observation of other people if you agree, what do you think separates, you, your results, and actions from others who, never make it?
Yeah, I think the action part of it, I’m still a student when it comes to those types of these events. And it’s just about getting when I’m going into it. I think going into it, I have to have the mindset of what actionable items am I going to leave this place with? What am I going?
So going in, I’m looking and listening for things that I’m going to do. Out of the event and place action into so going in, I’ve got a mindset of, okay what kind of things can I implement in my business? What kind of ideas? How are my investors thinking? How are operators thinking? What are they doing in the market?
And then going out and on my flight home or on my way home, I’m already writing down. Okay. What am I going to do on Monday? I’m writing this list. Everything that I need to start implementing the next week. And not just take him back on the airplane, all that was a good event, no, that was great.
I learned a couple of things. I can tell people I went through it, but it’s, that’s just the first step, I think actually. Being purposeful on what kind of actions I’m going to take out of those events, out of things I’m listening to on podcasts. It’s great to listen to podcasts all the time, I’m trying to implement different ones.
Audiobooks. We talked about audiobooks too, before I think are great too, to always be refreshing it, but having that attention, not just being a consumer of knowledge, but start producing two way, go in with the intent to consume and to soak up, but have the intent you place action on it.
So a lot of events, especially ones that are. A little less, maybe specific or tailored to a particular aspect. We’ll have speakers, basically selling a program, run to the back of the room. And this program is going to cost you almost nothing. It turns out it doesn’t cost anything. And then it’s going to turn you into a multi-billionaire and it’s just a sales event.
And I guess, how do you, presumably you avoid that impulse and you go for the quality content rather than the sales pitch. How do you separate those things and look for the real actionable information?
Yeah. I think you’re bound to go to one at one or two of those, or it might happen even at some reputable events, but I think it’s best to try to do too.
Just like you’re doing due diligence on an operator or a deal doing due diligence on the event and on the speakers who are, what kind of speakers do they have lined up? What are they talking about? Dive into. That content you might, they are in it to make some money, but I think, don’t focus on that part, just focus and some might, they might specifically just our back of the event deals, so try to go to ones where you can find testimonials or find ones. Hosts that you trust and hosts that you are already consuming their knowledge. I wouldn’t just go to an event Willy nilly, like the first time you hear it. So I think the first step is reading books. If they’re an author, that’s probably a good start too.
If they’ve written some good books if they have their podcasts, that’s probably good. And cater to and are those podcasts, are you getting a lot of value to add or is it fluff, or is it, a good, solid, actionable item that you can take into? I would say maybe read their books or listen to their content first before you, take that time and money to go invest that into, a little life. Or virtual events nowadays, get to understand that person’s reputation, what they talk about and, learn more about them.
How to Pivot in Real Estate with Brian Wagers
So that, that, that makes a lot of sense. Now you mentioned a couple of times too, that you go to local networking events, to meet other investors. And I think that’s where I see.
A lot of this type of thing, the most local REOs tend to be frankly, a lot of times a pitch session, but there can be networking opportunities, in, in that particular case, when it’s not like a specific event, national event that you fly to, for whatever purpose, do you see that a lot?
And I guess what’s your focus there because a lot of time, a lot of times those networking events or. There might not be information that’s directly relatable to your business. Cause maybe they’re talking about, flipping or something like that. How do you work with those events in particular?
Yeah, that’s a good point, for me, my local events were a lot of single fas like when I went there, they weren’t. They love the single-family. That’s what they talk about that. Talk about flips, wholesaling. How do I get started and single-family rentals? At those meet local meetups, I was the apartment guy.
I, there was maybe one or two other commercial real estate people, but I was the apartment guy and my specific thing. So I wouldn’t, I wasn’t trying to impose mine. Apartment, Hey, everybody needs to be invested in apartments. Cause there’s some, a lot of people, they do want to be active.
They want to make a business out of flipping homes or they want to be a host. They want to be a wholesaler or maybe they’re realtors. They’re trying to, a lot of times realtors will go to that event to hopefully meet leads of fixer flippers or investors and being their dealer. But I think it’s what you make of it and how you hold yourself and you do have that risk.
Okay. I just went to an event and it was just a big sales pitch, but I’m onto the next one. So it’s okay. Yes, you might have to get through a couple of meetups to find you, find a good couple of meetups that you like too. So that is part of the process. It may depend on what city you’re into.
Some cities have a lot more than other cities do. Some cities only have a couple And that’s something that I’ve been playing around with now too, is there’s no commercial meetup in my area. So maybe that’s something I could start myself if apartment one or just a more general commercial real estate.
Go for it, man. I started mine a few years ago, before COVID, COVID kind of threw a monkey wrench in those works, but yeah, definitely encourage you to do that. And no one would touch on the topic of time management. I was in a conversation with an investor last night.
Who’s looking to scale their real estate investments or get more cash flow out of their portfolio. But. They’re strapped for time. And we all have the same 24 hours in the day. Many people have different levels of family commitments, personal commitments, maybe a very busy day job.
And how do you handle that for yourself? Just managing your time. A lot is going on that you’ve got your, hands and a lot of pots here. So how do you handle your time commitments?
I think the number one thing is discipline. Having a CA having a schedule, having a routine is huge.
Look at everyone who’s really doing well in commercial real estate and doing well and life routines are big and having the discipline to follow that schedule or that regime where you. Where you’re getting things knocked out, starting early. For me, I’m a, I’m an ER like I found out that it works best for me to wake up at 4:00 AM every day.
Some people don’t, some people would kill them to do that. But if they wouldn’t mind staying up till 2:00 AM, that would. I don’t drink, but if I stayed up till 1:00 AM, I would be hungover. I would like my butt, like me and my wife were asleep. They stay up sometimes. And it’s almost like a different feeling.
Same thing. If someone got up early, they’re stressed, you know that they’re physically not there, but it’s a process too. So you have. Stick with a schedule and you have to do it for more than a couple of weeks. It’ll take time for your body to adjust to a schedule and a regime. And I think that’s big.
And another aspect of time management is delegation. It’s, we talked about hunter before, but he gifted the via the book who not, how it’s who not how, how are you going to do it, but who you’re going to do it with? And that is a big, as far as mindset thing goes, I might be able to do it for a couple of bucks cheaper, but is it going to be.
For my growth purposes or is it going to be for my mental health growth purposes? Am I going to be able to think, have to be able to think about that vision? We talked about that before, too, about being able to. Free yourself from those lower-level tasks or even tasks that you know, that you mentioned not necessarily lower-level or tasks that you just don’t love doing.
So I think, getting excited about that, but those who are just starting in your business or your area, that you might have to, be focused on that discipline to do those tasks, that you may not necessarily like doing that for at least when you’re getting the ground running.
And it’ll happen, for me, it’s having the disciplined schedule, having the schedule, and being disciplined about it.
And then also, how am I going to delegate or who am I going to partner up with? So how often would you say no to things? People say, Hey there, Brian, there’s this thing that whatever, and you say, no,
Yeah. That’s a great question. You want to be a yes, man. But honestly, my life changed when I started saying no to things, for me it was this giving up drinking. I haven’t drank since I got about four years ago. Wow. It wasn’t like that. I wasn’t a guy who was drinking every day or, have some moment where I wrecked into a school bus or something like that.
It's about that first step and being purposeful on what kind of actions Im going to take.
It was just not serving me. And it was just, it was taking time and that was something I had to stop, Hey, you want to go out after work for a couple of beers or, Hey, you want to go out this weekend? And then it’s just like a lot of notes. Like you lose some friends, you don’t have to shut people off, but yeah.
You don’t have you, your you might change circles or your circle might get a little bit smaller when you start saying no. Or you might lose some people, but I still stay in touch with my old friends and everything is just maybe not hanging out with them as much anymore, but say no to things. This is a big part of, growth and, especially on that focusing on your long-term goals over, short-term stuff is very important.
Now you’re a young guy, or you’re 30 years old, you’ve done all of these real estate deals. At what point do you decide to start thinking about hanging up the cleats and retiring? And if so, you know why. Why not, you got a lot of life ahead of you. And I know there are a lot of people out there who are in their fifties and sixties that would love to be in that position.
But, aren’t for whatever reason, if you could do that, should you, would that be a wise.
Yeah, I love that. Like hanging up your cleats because it paints such a big picture. A lot of athletes sometimes they’ll have trouble hanging up the cleats. Look at Tom Brady.
He’s been around forever and he still loves doing it. And he’s still really good at it. But then you also look at guys like Tony Romo who had a great NFL career and was not as good as Tom Brady’s, but then he became a broadcast analyst, so he pivoted he’s still in the same industry. He’s still in NFL professional football, but now he’s an analyst and now he’s a broadcaster.
So I think for me, I think it’s a one it’s a moving target. That’s for sure. You get, you want to get to your different net worth level. I’ll be comfortable at this net worth, or I’ll be comfortable with this many units or I’ll be comfortable with this big of a business. But I think for me that it’s a moving target and also it’s just starting to do more things I love.
More focused on the capital raising piece. I’m more focused on not just putting deals together, just more focused on getting my money and my investors and more and more people into real estate that should be in real estate, especially the high net worth people. And those high net worth people I’m talking to, they have the same problems of hanging up the cleat, you know that but a lot of times I hear them talk about selling their business or selling a portion of their business, where there may be an advisor on there on a board, or, they play a part, still play a small part in their business, but more focused on things they like not so much.
The lower level, but it sounds like you don’t see yourself retiring at 35.
I guess it depends what you mean retiring means, but yeah, I would say no, no retirement at 35, I would say maybe it looks, the business might look different. So for example, right now I’m raising money on a 236 unit deal. But I also have a 20 unit deal and a 72 unit deal under contract in my backyard where, or one.
Two hours away once 30 minutes away. And that’s just what me and my father-in-law. And then the 236 unit D I’ve got six or seven other investors on that, but I’m just a capital raising piece. So for me, I think there’ll be a part-time where maybe I’m not doing these smaller deals, but I, at this time for the next five years, I still see myself maybe less than that, honestly.
I see me. Faster and faster pivot into the larger deal approach and more focused on that at capital raising.
It’s interesting. Okay. So I suppose for my purposes, the way I would think about a quote retirement would be to. But just live on passive cash flow. You’re not doing things actively in any way to make money anymore.
You’re just living off of portfolio income, from one way or maybe 50, 50, 50 years. Yeah. I’d say 50 years. Yeah, I don’t know. I guess it depends on what I look like when I’m 50 or 60. I don’t know. I think, yeah, we’ll see. Talk to me in five and that might change in five years. Maybe I will want to sooner or later, maybe I’ll want to do.
Once you get the Ferrari, let me know. And we’ll come down and take a ride, sir. Awesome. Anytime, man, I might take you up on that, especially once you have the Ferrari, when you might not want to, might not want to put those pictures on Instagram. I think people don’t love.
It’s not quite the marketing tool. I think it used to be, I don’t know. It depends what industry, maybe in the equipment field, somewhere quicker, if you’re selling a scam coin, then it might be a better marketing tool.
But if you’re selling real investment opportunities, people might not love this.
Yeah, people now authenticity between none. So I think that’s an important part in business and life people, especially now that I’m looking at the capital raising piece, the big thing too is being authentic to who you are.
Nice. Nice. I love it. Right now we’re going to take a quick break for ours. All right, Brian, I’ve got three questions. I ask every guest on the show, but you’ve been on the show before you’ve answered those questions. So I’ve got three new ones for our returning guests. Are you ready to go? Let’s go. Awesome. And this is along the lines of education? And a lot of what we’ve talked about today.
The first couple of art related to books. What’s your favorite book to read for personal reasons? Personal enjoyment,
personal thinking grow rich is one that I always go back to. I also like the compound effect by Darren Hardy.
Okay. I think I have that one on an audiobook. How about on the other side of that?
This is pretty related to that, but what’s your favorite book to read for business reasons, your favorite business book?
Business book, I would have to say who not have. This is the one that I just got done reading. And I like the principles behind that and how it applies to business and, partnering and delegating and getting into a position of growth and a position, not only where you’re growing, but where do you want to be in that growth?
Nice. Nice. How about the last one? Where is the next place that you’re going? The next place that you’re excited to travel to?
I’m going to Jackson hole Wyoming in two weeks, less than two weeks. So one of my friends is getting married and he’s also not a big drinker. So we are doing go into the number one resort in North America, and that is a Jackson hole resort.
So we’ll be going out there, staying in the Teton Village. And it’s been a while since that skied, I used to ski all the time. Team, but it’s been about five years. So see if I still got it a little sore, but I’m excited for that. Never been at really out west. So that’s a fun one. That’s coming up.
Nice. Nice. Be careful, stay safe, and come.
back home in one piece Brian has been great talking with you. Once again, thank you for coming back to the show. If folks want to reach out, if they want to get in touch, if they want to learn more about what you’re up to or anything like that, where can they track?
So we’re just finishing up an ebook right now. You can get [email protected] slash book. I’m looking at comparing multifamily to the stock market and traditional ways of retirement. A case study on that and a little bit more about multiple.
Awesome. Awesome. Once again, thank you for coming back to the show today.
It’s been great talking with you to everybody out there. Thank you for tuning in. If you’re enjoying the show, please leave us a rating and review on the apple podcast. Five stars. If you don’t mind you guys, I appreciate that so much that helps other people learn about a show because that helps us rank higher in the apple podcasts go system.
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Thank you for tuning in once again, don’t forget to subscribe and catch us here every Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday. I hope you have a great rest of your day. We’ll talk to you about the next one. Bye-bye.
How to Pivot in Real Estate
About our Guest
Brian Wagers
Brian Wagers is a multi family investor with both hands on and hands off experience. He has been involved in over $100,000,000 worth of apartment transactions through his experience as an owner and general partner.
He now seeks to invest and help other high growth professionals and business owners put their money in a tax advantaged, risk adjusted growth space.
Episode Show Notes
Brian Wagers is a multifamily investor with both hands-on and hands-off experience. He has been involved in over $100,000,000 worth of apartment transactions through his experience as an owner and general partner. He now seeks to invest and help other high-growth professionals and business owners put their money in a tax-advantaged, risk-adjusted growth space.
[00:01 – 04:34] Opening Segment
- Let’s welcome back Brian Wagers
- Doubling 500-units in the past 5 years
[04:35 – 13:02] The Right Time to Pivot
- Brian recalls the exact moment he realized he wanted to venture into a new area in business
- How Brian scaled his business from his backyard
- Brian’s Mindset: Leaving actionable items in place
[13:03 – 23:53] How to Pivot in Real Estate
- Strengthen connections at local networking events
- Master your 24 hours
- Learn to say ‘no’
- Brain talks about retirement
[23:54 – 30:08] Closing Segment
- Quick break for our sponsors
- Groundfloor offers short-term, high-yield real estate debt investments to the general public. Check www.passivewealthstrategy.com/groundfloor/ to get started.
- What is your favorite book to read for personal reasons?
- What is your favorite book to read for business purposes?
- Brian’s Travel Bucket List
- Jacksonville, Wyoming
Connect with Brian Wagers through Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn. Visit Wagers Capital and don’t forget to download their free ebook!
Invest passively in multiple commercial real estate assets such as apartments, self storage, medical facilities, hotels and more through https://www.passivewealthstrategy.com/crowdstreet/
Participate directly in real estate investment loans on a fractional basis. Go to www.passivewealthstrategy.com/groundfloor/ and get ready to invest on your own terms.
Join our Passive Investor Club for access to passive commercial real estate investment opportunities.
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Tweetable Quotes:
“If I wanted to go into a different market, I am going to have to partner up.” – Brian Wagers
“Saying ‘no’ to things is a big part of growth.” – Brian Wagers
