Yield Maintenance, Defeasance, and more With Scott Williams

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Scott Williams  0:00  

What you're asking is an event that's going to happen well into the future. so, you know, we have a lot of people say, hey, what would my yield maintenance penalty be in your five and on this slide, and all we can really do is tell you have we been five years into alone today with the same terms, here's what it would be.

Taylor   0:22  

What's going on guys, this is passive wealth strategies for busy professionals. today, our guest is Scott Williams, from Aline capital. Scott is a commercial real estate lender, and today he's going to teach us some very important details about commercial real estate debt that you might not fully understand, but you really need to understand if you are a commercial real estate investor. 

Today we're going to talk about yield maintenance and difference clauses, what those mean for your loans, how they're calculated, how what they need for your lender, why they're so important. bunch of great details in this one. stay tuned for Interview with Scott Williams from align capital. If you are a multifamily investor, you need to know this information. Here we go with Scott Williams from Aline capital. Scott, thank you for joining us today.

Scott Williams  1:14  

Yes, absolutely. Thanks for having me really excited to be on the show and hopefully add some value to all the other great content we put out there.

Taylor   1:23  

You know, I'm sure you will there. We're going to get into some pretty deep details on debt, real estate loans here, good debt, debt on cash flowing real estate, the good kind of debt. let's get into some of those details. I mean, we've got a whole list here. We're going to go through. We want to get into what we should look at before we look at the interest rate on our debt. yeah, let's get started here. Tell me about that.

Scott Williams  1:52  

No, absolutely in. as a guy that usually gets called by clients or prospective clients, But the first question they ask is, hey, what's what's the interest rate on a deal like this? You know, it's definitely an important question to answer. For me. Our biggest thing is we try to coach folks through the handful of things that are more important than the interest rate on and in terms of investment, real estate, especially when you're taking on investors and limited investors with you. 

And if you are a passive investor looking for deal, the number one killer we see two yields and two returns on any deal is prepayment penalties and misunderstood or ill time prepayment penalties. the reason for that is in multifamily and commercial lending. A lot of the non recourse permanent mortgages that we have available out there for these asset classes, David They have prepayment protections for the lender. 

what the lenders really doing there is, you know, a lenders and investor too. they're trying to quantify their yield on a deal. They're just kind of the backside of the transaction from the investors. you'll hear me say a lot of times when I coach when I teach that life is a double edged sword. so you know, if you want maximum leverage, or if you want maximum amortization and, and the biggest ticket item, if you want the longest term, fixed rate periods possible on deals, a lot of times those are going to come with, you know, our yield maintenance and diseases. 

they both interact kind of similarly on a deal but these are buzzwords, right. They're not curse words. if you're a lead investor on a deal, definitely something you want to understand and comprehend and if you're a passive investor ideal definitely something you also want to be wary of. because it affects several things about the deal. one important thing to know about both of these is that neither of them can be waived. 

the reason for that is when you have Yield maintenance or Defeasance and sort of deal typically means because that loan has been sold in the secondary market, either on a one off basis or in a securitization pool. so it's not really up to the lender in your otherwise relationship. Hey, man, Can you wave it on this one? I'll get on the next one. the answer is really no. so, the technical definition on the two of them are, yield maintenance is in addition to the principal balance on loan yields, maintenance is a penalty that involves the present value of all future interest payments on a deal in the discount rate because when we're doing net present value, we have a discount rate will be discounted back to is the nearest term Treasury rate. 

There's a we're in a 10 year deal. we're three years in, right so there's seven years left on the loan. , that would mean the closest Treasury rate to us as the seven year Treasury, we have to do the net present value of all the seven years of interest payments with the discount rate at the Treasury rate. if you know anything about discount rates, the lower the discount rate, less effect you get for or you get for it being a net present value hadn't been higher, the payment will be lower, but since Treasury rates are so low, it can go down and defeat reasons is is similar defeats is actually you have to replace the cash flows that otherwise you would have made with your interest payments and you replace them by purchasing treasuries again, the nearest term treasuries you have to purchase Just treasuries, that will make the same interest payments that you would have otherwise on your loan. the reason that the deposits payments gets so big is because, you know, caught say, just for round numbers, you know, your interest rate on your loan is four and a half percent. 

Well, you have to make payments based on four and a half percent interest, but you have to use a one and a half percent instrument. think of it this way, you're trying to fill a four and a half percent bucket with a one and a half Scoop. it just takes a lot more students, right, to put it in context and see it and so those two things in people misunderstanding those two things and how they interact, can be killers, especially if the business plan on a transaction is to return capital early on in the process, right. 

Scott Williams  6:54  

in 10 year deals being the most typical, you know, we see 12 we see 15 Heck, there's 30 year fully amortizing loans out there, right? So when you're in the early years of these loans, you can see that based on those definitions, why there's prepayment penalties and be so high.

Taylor   7:13  

Look it back up and make sure I'm understanding and I'm getting this all right. yield maintenance being calculated by or the net, the net present value calculation being essentially running an interest rate calculation backwards. saying, if you say, I want to have $100,000 10 years from now, and I assume the interest rate over that period of time is going to be I don't care about 5% then I back calculate that and I know I need to invest whatever amount of money it is today, to have $100,000 10 years down the road or to use your case that you presented seven years down the road, correct? 

Correct. Yep. you said three years. into a loan. that seems to imply that at the outset, let's say I'm taking a loan a 10 year 10 year note right now. I decided I want to sell in three years. But I don't know, I cannot reliably predict what the discount rate is going to be three years from now, or I don't really know what that number is going to be. Is that right?

Scott Williams  8:27  

Absolutely. you hit the nail on the head there. it's because these items, what you're asking is an event that's going to happen well into the future. so, you know, we have a lot of people say, hey, what would my yield maintenance penalty be in your five on this land? And all we can really do is tell you have we been five years into a loan today with the same terms, here's what it would be right because we're basing it on what the Treasury rates going to be in five years from Now and so we have to use the historical context and you can use you know, long term averages if you want to try to get a better read but absolutely it's impossible to predict the future or well that far into the future. What it will be now if you like, Hey, what's my, your maintenance penalty? 

You got to be three months from now. Yeah, we've been on a margin of error like we can we can get that but, you know, even a year from now, you know, probably not too far off. But, you know, three years, five years from now really kind of impossible to quantify it.

Taylor   9:31  

And we are talking just proof folks listening we're talking the evening of October 1 2019. What are just off the top of your head what are the rates today to 10 year Treasury rate?

Scott Williams  9:45  

Yeah, 10 year Treasury was a roller coaster. They I think it went 10 dips up and down for the morning. Last I checked it, and I checked it about every 20 minutes in my industry, but we chose top clients as We get rates in 20 minute increments when the treasuries fall. But yeah, it was about 164. it kind of bounced between low 160s and 172. Day on the 10 year, which is about to your point. It's really that's about 100 basis points below where it was a year ago. almost a full percentage.

Taylor   10:19  

That's way down. and this is the back up to your comment earlier, when you first mentioned this is a lower 10 year Treasury or lower Treasury rate, depending on whatever your your maturity might be, actually makes this yield maintenance closet more expensive.

Scott Williams  10:38  

Yep. exactly what you were mentioning earlier, the higher the what we call discount rate, or the higher the interest rate you can assume you would make on your current money, the less money you have to have today, to invest to get to where you need to be at the end. when you hear a lot of times people say, hey, if grades go up, Maintenance goes down. 

That is correct. , usually not large enough in a short period of time to offset any sort of large penalty. But yes, the The larger the Treasury rate is or the higher the Treasury is, the lower yield maintenance penalty or diseases penalty would be

Taylor   11:18  

interesting. That's good to know. Now, could you go back and run over a difference for us again, because I, you know, I've been over this many times, you know, in my own investments, but it's still a little bit of black magic to me. Yeah.

Scott Williams  11:31  

So, hopefully, there are no actual defeat specialists out there listening. But as I'm going to get really close, I'm going to get really close to everyone that doesn't know what it is. for the specialist, they're going to tell you I missed it by a mile, but it's very interesting. you have to use it. Typically, when a loan has been securitized in a mortgage backed securities trust or so a CBS steel or commercial mortgage backed securities. Freddie Mac also securitized as much like a market see BS still does. They actually pull like 100 200 loans together, and they create a trust in the trust that issues bonds, and the bonds are backed by the cash flow of all the deals in that portfolio. the people that buy those cash flows are actually buying bonds. 

so when you go to defeat a deal, you have to replace your collateral. while you're paying off your loan and your note and mortgage are no longer collateral and the property are no longer collateral of the trust, you actually create a new LLC or your attorneys do for you probably didn't even know this was going on but your attorneys go out and create a new LLC. you have to go by so you know, great companies out there that specialize in this. The fees with these is a great group out of Charlotte just north of me here that does a great job of it and they have great calculators online, but you'll make it stand to pieces You have to hire special special firms to do this for you and they go out and do when you have a defeat, it's it's an acquisition, you have someone defeating. 

if you've ever done this the lender actually has to fund the night before or the day before they have to fund escrow so that the diseases group knows the deal is really on. Because they go out and purchase a tremendous amount of securities, they purchase all of the treasuries for you. then they assign those treasuries to the new shell LLC that you purchase. now the cash flows from the treasuries that you purchased. Go into your shell LLC that you are replacing your collateral with. that shell LLC takes the payments from those treasuries and then pays them to the trust which then pay them from the bottom up.

Taylor   13:54  

Wow, this is complicated.

Scott Williams  13:58  

So as you can See when you call in a layman like me and you're like, Hey, can we just wave this? The answer unfortunately is No.

Taylor   14:07  

Okay, so you know that's how big of an impact do yield maintenance and diseases have in a real sense like RP How much are people really running into these are they are most people kind of running it into into it on the backend? They're like, Oh man, I didn't know about this it's going to kill my whole deal and I didn't account for it or, you know, how is it really hitting people? You know today from what you see?

Scott Williams  14:36  

Yeah, so we see it hitting a lot of folks that bought in like 2014 2015 that maybe took 10 year money and have four to five years left on it right now. values have done incredibly well even since 2015. I mean, we've seen a deal as late as 16. Two really well on it, and I'm sure there's others but you know, 2014 2015 we've seen In some cases, another 30% and 40%, you know, increase in value since then on some properties in with some true value creation, not all just cap rate compression, but it's really some folks that had no, no desire to sell. it's just, they're getting the property value to a point where they just should not walk away from that setup. so, and we also say, always start with the business plan. 

you know, 90% of everybody over long term holders will never sell this deal. We want to be long term holders will take the 10 year money with the hard prepayment penalty, and then they call me 18 months down the road, man, I just got this smoking offer, go get out of this deal. , step one, always have a business plan step to have outs in case that business plan changes, right. so in the vast majority of the fame and Freddie Mac loans and even CBS the majority of all loans with these prepayment penalties are assume bubble and they're suitable to somebody that might want to to buy the property that that otherWise. 

Instead of paying that loan off and having that large prepayment penalty, the buyer can actually come in and step in and take over your loan. having an assumption clause in your loan is is the number one thing you want to look out for number two, is the biggest thing we run into a supplementals is say you had an $8 million mortgage. Four years ago, when you bought a property for $10 million, and you're selling it for 14. Well, your property balance is seven and a half million and your son is 14. that's six and a half million dollars in equity. it's, you know, it's almost a 50% loan. That's a lot of equity that people have to bring. 

There are some tools to manage this equity gap. CMT S is a little more difficult. If you are looking at CBS land, it will not always be allowed, but you should always ask the question, Hey, can we build a supplemental or a secondary financing provision into this loan will be allowed or a mezzanine loan within Fannie Mae Freddie Mac we have supplemental loans or second mortgages, the loan qualified to help with that equity got so, again, this song goes back to your maintenance the diffusers are buzzwords, not curse words, I don't want people to just say no, we can't take those because there are some tools to manage. 

But you know, they are the number one thing that if you come in and you've got a $10 million loan or you know, you've got an $8 million loan on a $10 million property, you're valued at like 13 or $14 million, and all of a sudden you've got a $3 million prepayment penalty, which is a very realistic scenario. , there goes all your return. Right? So definitely something you want to want to be on the lookout for. Okay,

Taylor   17:41  

yeah. Another important thing I'd like to cover with you, while we've got you is recourse on loans now, all of the investing that I do is non recourse financing. That's, that's what we've done. But, you know, I'd like to get your Your take on how you know what is the relative advantage or disadvantage of a recourse versus a non recourse loan? Which is one better than the other for wealth creation and preservation? And how does that all work? I mean, non recourse sounds great, they can't come after me. But maybe resources better in some ways if, you know, if it's a risk adjusted, you know, advantage. What do you thoughts there?

Scott Williams  18:28  

Yeah, so, like, like my earlier comment, you know, life is a double edged sword, and so a non recourse loan may have some of these prepayment provisions in there. that would be you know, that would be something you would want to look out for, you know, non recourse loans. it used to be said that maybe the interest rate was a little higher than the banks. That's not true right now, you know, we're doing we're issuing 10 year non recourse money in the high 3% range right now, based on Treasure rates. Wow. 

In the banks, banks that aren't capital markets driven and are basing off prime, you know, prime just got lowered the other week to 5%. you've got a base rate that some banks are living off lending off of at 5%. I'm in high threes, that's a huge dump. Right? So it's not true to say that recourse is non recourse is is a higher interest rate. I will say that, in terms of closing costs, and non recourse loan traditionally is a lot more expensive than a traditional recourse loan from a bank. Now, you may be dealing with hard money, that's recourse, and that's completely not true. But the biggest things are, is that anybody that's really growing and massively growing, their portfolio will likely need non recourse at some point. here's why. we actually deal really well with banks that understand that we are friends and not competition, the majority Time, we actually have a lot of banks approach us to help take their clients off of their balance sheet into a non recourse loan to help that client reset your take some chips off the table a little bit. one reason for that is some banks have lending limits with clients and they want them to go to non recourse as opposed to the bank. But the other reason is contingent liabilities. what we talked about debt coverage, a global debt coverage, right? And so,

Scott Williams  20:33  

on a recourse loan traditionally, let's say you and I are partners.

Scott Williams  20:37  

Let's say you and I are partners on a loan with a with a national bank, let's say it's even one of the big ones right, Sally can pick on a local bank. Let's say we got a great lead recourse loan for 5 million bucks and you and I are 50/50 partners. On that recourse loan. You're not on the hook for two and a half million and I'm on the hook for two and a half million. 

You're on the hook for 5 million, and I'm on the hook for five. The guarantees are traditionally joint and several, which means we're both on the hook for the full amount until the bank gets paid back. so what that looks like when you go forward to borrow from another bank is let's say, let's say you have $5 million in the bank, right? So you're doing great, you've got $5 million cash in the bank, you've got really ample liquidity reserves. If you're signed on to $20 million worth of recourse mortgages, even if you're a 5% partner, and your actual liability in theory, but this partnership agreement should be much less if the House of Cards all fell at the same time. What you think is ample liquidity reserves is a drop in the bucket, what you're on the hook for and in a lot and also what these groups are looking for is they're looking at your global debt coverage. That is all of the income you take in. 

Can it service the debt on the recourse mortgages because again, you know, exactly I'm on the hook for part of it, you're on The Oprah part of it, they have to look at it as we're both on the hook for the fourth thing, the banks like I stopped playing get paid back. we're non recourse mortgages come in is they are also joined several. like what you just told me the big thing was not doing several, but for one reason or another, you know, the fact that non recourse mortgages generally only have bad act carve outs means that we are only continually liable if we otherwise commit, you know, fraud or, you know, do I never want to be to Canada, but the bad at cards because they really need to be read. There's some real things in there, but, um, any anything that would, you know, you maybe shouldn't do. It's called that act carve out for a reason, you know, explicitly going against what it said in the loan agreement, or the loan documents, outside of committee and either things were happening. 

I'm hope for anything. so thanks for able to look at that and say, okay, you know, Taylor's got 5 million bucks, and he's on the hook for $20 million in loans, but those are all non recourse, you know, unless you were to wind up in jail and trip these non recourse mortgages Anyway, you know, he's not actually on the hook for any of it. so, that's one major component. then also, as you're looking to scale and grow multi channel racial wealth and grow long, you know, large portfolios to pass down is a family and provide for your family. It really helps you take risk off the table in the event of another, you know, global economic crash, you know, not that we're expecting one. 

Ray Dalio the owner is at Bridgewater that also read the book principles but has the largest one of the most successful hedge funds in history time. , wrote that he has a great YouTube video You're talking about business cycles, and then the large drops and increases in those business cycles. it says historically, they happen every 80 to 100 years. I'm hoping 2008 was an 80 or 100 year flood event. , you know, hopefully I'm still alive by the next one. , I won't be looking great, but I probably won't be working in business at that point. hopefully we dodged the next one.

Taylor   24:26  

Yeah, yeah. Um, I don't know if I'll be I'll still be around. . I don't want to go out at the bottom. what I mean? Yeah,

Scott Williams  24:34  

that's it. That's it.

Taylor   24:36  

Yeah. Another important number that we haven't touched on when it comes to debt that I think people especially moving from more residential investing to commercial investing is the idea of balloon and the balloon payments, balloon periods. 

Because if you're taking a loan on a, you know, single family investment property, get 30 year you know, fully amortizing debt, no problem. 30 years, I know it's going to be completely paid off as long as you know, play my cards right and everything. Whereas with commercial data, I mean, you might have a balloon payment and five or 10 years or less somewhere in there. Tell us about balloons. It's a pretty simple concept. But you know, do you also would like to know, do you see people having trouble, you know, with their balloon periods, are people selling fast enough these days? And what are your thoughts about that, especially as it relates to a recession, potential recession down the road? You know, is that a trouble ahead? Maybe? I don't know.

Scott Williams  25:33  

Yeah, sure thing. This also goes back to prepayment penalty, right? Because, you know, the theory that okay, if I take a longer fixed rate, like if we were to say right now say, okay, we don't know where we are in the cycle, but 10 years from now, we should not be in another crash. It should happen somewhere in between this second and two years from now. I'm going to take 10 year money and I'll bridge the next downturn. Yep, that is a reasonable train of thought. With that also comes those prepayment implications to where if you didn't even get out of that loan earlier, you might have some trouble. 

I'm looking at, you know, where we are in the cycle and trying to manage refinance risk in a balloon is where the entire loan balance comes. Do. very, I would say, professional opinion, some of the most efficiently priced money in the market is taking your money. That's where the capital providers feel comfortable about a risk premium. Over the 10 year risk free rate versus five and seven, actually a little skittish recording a lot of seven year deals right now, interest rate is higher than the seven year deal, even though the seven year Treasury still below the 10. It's because the lenders are also looking at refinance risks, right? And so, if you were to say, Okay, well, we might need to get out of this deal in your four, maybe your five I don't want to take a picture Payment penalty of a 10 year loan. 

I'm going to take a shorter maturity, I'm going to take a five year loan, well, you do run the risk of, you know, it is possible that five years from now, you know, property values may be less than they are are just possible we may find ourselves in a hard time where it's very difficult to refinance. , and so, a way to manage that and one of my favorite products out there, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac both offer them less, less available economy and then life insurance companies will offer resets and at the resets while the loan is committed for the whole time, at the resets, you have the ability to pay the loan off a little penalty, but on the hybrid loans, how that works is that you can get a fixed rate for five or seven or even 10 years but you know, five years, seven years so that you don't have a large prepayment penalty if you need to go to learn but below For Freddie Mac is actually written for 20 years for Fannie Mae, it's written for 30 years. after that initial fixed rate period, it goes to a floating rate. 

Scott Williams  28:12  

you know, I don't want to go to a floating rate. I mean, that's how a lot of people in the single family side GOT GOT heard that readjusted to a market rate, well, the rate may go up, and it may be higher. But it's not gouge you rate or a penalty rate that it goes to, it just goes to the market rate that you would otherwise be able to refinance at the time. It's just on a floating basis. so those are great ways to manage a fixed float are great ways to manage like, Hey, we're doing a value add, we may need to return capital in your four or five or Hey, we think this area might catch like wildfire. 

We want to be able to get it out of it like your four or five, maybe even as early as three. But man I don't know where we are in the cycle. I want to manage my refinance risk. I want to have this balloon payment. We actually call it bullet because the instead. , those are great tools to manage. then I've mentioned life insurance companies, life insurance companies will do 2025 30 year fully amortized loans. They can be fixed for the whole period. But a lot of times, they'll fix you in five or seven year increments to where, you know, you have your maintenance, but it's only for five years, then you do a rate reset, you've got your maintenance for five more. you know, that's another great option. 

several tools to manage and things to look into this whole balancing act. , the biggest things to remember are, you know, there's typically no one perfect land program for you that matches exactly what you need. it's a balancing act, because life is a double edged sword. all of these options are a double edged sword and we just want to really make sure we get the right one for the business plan on each deal.

Taylor   29:54  

Yeah, like that. I mean, there are a lot of important things in there and, you know, hopefully, down the road If it's if it's 10 years when you go to floating rate or you know any of the numbers, he said, hopefully you've executed your business plan, you know, a little bit more, significantly more equity in the property than you had when you bought it. then the other part of that is we think about the adjustable rate mortgages from the last crash. Well, in that regard, people were being sold mortgages at a teaser rate,

Scott Williams  30:23  

exactly.

Taylor   30:25  

Those rates increase to more market rates, and the borrowers didn't understand what was going to happen. the lenders didn't care because they were selling the loans off. we're, it's a very different type of scenario.

Scott Williams  30:39  

Yeah, I watched The Big Short again last week. It's an incredible movie. For those of you that haven't seen it, it's a great way to understand the finance industry, my world and also what causes what caused the global financial crisis of 2007 2008.

Taylor   30:58  

Yeah, absolutely. Great. movie, you haven't seen it, everybody should go out and see it. But for now, we're going to take a quick break for our sponsors. , Scott, I got three questions to ask every guest on the show. Are you ready? You bet. Great. First one, what is the best investment you ever made?

Scott Williams  31:17  

So, this one's tricky, or not tricky, but kind of unique. I'm a huge real estate guy. But I actually am the owner of the line capital also. so I do a tremendous amount of reinvesting into the company for myself and resources for my folks. it has been the biggest provider of you know, lifestyle and happiness. Also some unhappy times, but, or stress, but I would say, you know, believing, believing in myself or maybe my wife, believing in me enough to allow me to, you know, have the confidence to start the company and ultimately been the best investment for me.

Taylor   31:57  

That's awesome. I love it. Entrepreneurship Great on the other side of that, what is the worst investment you ever made?

Scott Williams  32:05  

Hmm. Uh, anytime I bet on my Clemson Tigers, it's probably been me is that too cheesy of a response? I was gonna say, you know, whenever you bet on a team that you're also pulling for, you know, you can lose twice in one day and that hurt. Yeah, no.

Taylor   32:25  

I'm not a huge sports guy. But you know, I'm I'm terrible at picking stocks and picking sports teams too. Yeah,

Scott Williams  32:33  

yeah, no, absolutely.

Taylor   32:35  

Yeah. All right. my favorite question out of all these three is what is the most important lesson that you've learned in investing?

Scott Williams  32:43  

The most important lesson I've learned in investing and, and maybe I can help attribute this back to, to business a little bit. One for your passive investors. 

This is something I live by we've had some issues. With this in our firm, but just because the rich doesn't mean they're smart. , so don't don't just follow anybody with money because we've seen plenty of rich people lose it. But one piece of advice I'm giving out in general, is that in business and in investing, anytime you run into the question of how do I overcome this or how do I do this? Or how am I going to raise this money?

Scott Williams  33:26  

replace the word how, with the word Who?

Scott Williams  33:31  

And use the power of other people. Right? So not like, you know, how do I get this ppm done for this investment? It's who knows about a ppm that can get this done for me, right? How am I going to how am I going to go out and knock out all of this physical due diligence in one day, you know, it's who can help me go out there and do this and so you know, using the power of other people and don't be wrong every you know, everything costs money. 

within having the resources to do these things, but it's been enlightening for me. Especially because a lot of folks get self gratification or they pay for themselves and what they're doing when you do this. anytime you're facing an obstacle on investing or anything you can face you're facing a question in business, instead of saying how do I overcome something or how do I get this done? replace that with the word who and then think of whose expertise is that they can help with?

Taylor   34:26  

You know, I really like that and that is a I mean, it's in the best way possible. That is a very business owner mentality and and response and thought process. I like that a lot.

Scott Williams  34:38  

Yeah, now you bet. I will take credit for I go to an entrepreneur coaching organization, and that was one of their teachings is called Strategic Coach for you entrepreneurs out there, you should definitely look into it. I'll plug them and give them full credit there but we call it getting queued up. You got to get who's got you got problems.

Taylor   34:56  

So get hooked up. I like that. I like that person. A lot of you, you'll hear that kind of mentality echoed in a lot of business ownership, you know, materials, things like that is getting people and systems in place to handle task and manage things because we only have 24 hours in the day. But when you start adding people on your team, you get 48 hours in your day, because it's like, exactly,

Scott Williams  35:22  

yeah. Yeah, that is exactly it.

Taylor   35:25  

You're absolutely right. All right. Well, Scott Williams from a line capital, thank you for everything today. Where can people get in touch with you? Where can they learn more about you and your business and loan products and stuff?

Scott Williams  35:38  

Yeah, absolutely. our website, great, great tool. We've put some investment into that to really get folks involved with what we're doing and also provide some resources there. That's www.alinecapital.com. My phone number directly if you want to reach me as 816 729 3991

Taylor   36:04  

That's great. That's great. You're going to get bond with calls from the passive wealth strategies, listeners, but I'm sure they will all be well worth your time. Thank you once again for everything today, and I really appreciate it.

Scott Williams  36:17  

You bet. Thanks.

Taylor   36:19  

to everybody out there. Thank you for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed the discussion today. I learned a lot. I hope you did too. If you're enjoying the show, please leave us a rating and review on iTunes. It's a very big help and why should I should be saying Apple podcasts, it's Apple podcasts. Now it's been Apple podcast for months but whatever I'll get there. But anyway, please leave us a rating or review on Apple podcasts. thank you for listening. Once again, if you know somebody that would enjoy the show, please share with them and we'll get their passive wealth streams going. Thank you for tuning in. I hope you have a great rest of your day and a great week and we will talk to you on the next one. Take care

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