Success in Tough Real Estate Markets with Bill Bronchick

Full Transcript

Taylor   0:01  

What's going on guys, this is passive wealth strategies for busy professionals. Today, our guest is Bill Bronchick from legalwiz.com. Bill has been a lawyer for 30 years and a real estate investor for 28 years, he's seen a number of real estate markets and cycles. 

today we're talking about things that we can do as real estate investors to make it through tough markets, tough economic situations, things that we can do to prepare for these situations as well. 

the moves that smart, successful experienced real estate investors are making today in their real estate investments. Bill has been a media figure for a while now. He's been on a number of national news networks and he's interviewed in the media all the time. We discussed that a bit as well. It's a very unique experience and I wanted to learn about it.

you're going to get to learn about that. Today as well as we're in this tough market, and we may be approaching a tougher market, these are great lessons to keep in mind if you are dedicated to continuing to make real estate investments and to grow your portfolio. Thank you for tuning in.

For those of you who don't know, I'm your host Taylor load. I'm a real estate investor and real estate syndicator. I buy real estate with passive investors and split the return. Thank you for tuning in. Once again. You're gonna enjoy this one. Here we go with Bill Bronchick, Bill.

Thank you for joining us today. Pleasure to be here. Great to talk with you. I love your brand. I think it makes a lot of sense for what's going on now and the topic we're gonna discuss today. But for the folks out there who don't know about you don't know about your business. Can you tell us about yourself, your history and what you do?

Bill Bronchick  1:51  

Great. I've been a practicing real estate attorney for 30 years. I've been an active real estate investor for 28 Those 30 years, I've written six books on real estate that are published out in the marketplace.  I'm the proprietor of legal whiz calm, which is a source for real estate investors and legal topics

Taylor   2:13  

related to real estate investing. Awesome. I love it. You're the guy we want to be talking to right now. It's great when we can get linked up with professionals in an area that is related to real estate investing like the law, who are also real estate investors who have  informed advice for us so sure about that.

Maybe we won't call it advice. We'll call it educational content. today, you have a couple of books that I think make a lot of sense for our current market conditions.

Specifically defensive real estate investing, and wealth protection secrets of a millionaire real estate investor. Both Great. let's break into those. First, let's start with defensive real estate investing. Tell us about that book.  what It's about and lessons that we can glean today for today's market.

Bill Bronchick  3:04  

Great. I actually wrote that book in 2009 at the beginning of the downfall of the last market, which we may have some similarities coming up and basically talks about,  rational investing in a way that doesn't rely so much on the market that make sure that when you invest in a property, if the market is in turbulence, if you're not sure where it's going, how to protect yourself as a real estate investor from financial losses and maximize obviously your gains.

it gives guidelines on how to evaluate a residential commercial property. If the market may be doing well, it's important to always know what market you're in. It is opposite down is it sideways, but I think too many people in the 2005 through 2008. I made a lot of mistakes and got burned because they relied too much only on market appreciation, assuming that the market would never crash, which of course it did. 

A lot of those people who were investors went back to delivering pizzas. or driving cabs or whatever.  didn't survive the market downturn because real estate is a survival game,  it's in the long run, it always goes up, but can you survive the ups and downs in between? Okay,

Taylor   4:24  

so,  he did make a comment about,  we might be in that type of a market today. ,  by the time we know what market we're in, it's too late to make a lot of these changes. right, I mean, Can Can we see that coming? Do you think we're in now,

Bill Bronchick  4:41  

today? We're already starting the mess. I think the difference between now and 2008-2009 is that the supply of homes was really high back then, for I'll use my warm market for example in Denver, normal market inventories about 25,000 homes. We were as high as 32,000 homes. it was right for correction. Now we're at about 6000 homes in Denver, which is really low and it's been that way for many, many years.  low inventory builders stop building after the crash and, and existing homes that were built in the 50s to the 70s and 80s.

Or,  short supply, they don't build little 1200 to 1400 square foot, three bedroom, two bath,  don't Yeah, Rick homes, you know little ranches anymore like those starter homes, they don't build those anymore, especially in those in that arena where investors like to play. We have limited inventory, but the problem is now as demand, demand has dropped off because the market has come to a complete stop without open houses without showings with lenders backed up.

Then we're going to have his buyers who are going to drop out of the market and then decrease demand. buyers that are skittish buyers that lost their job buyers whose credits were hurt. By this economic fiasco that's already started, and it's going to kind of continue for a while.

and then buyers were just completely unfunny, Ansible because then all the business anymore, they don't have a job when their credits have been hurt. I think what's going to happen is demand is going to continue to drop off if we can hit 20 to 30% unemployment that's just catastrophic for the market. 

it's going to be a local thing, obviously,  New York is New Jersey is going to be hit much harder than other parts of the country, because that's where the hotspots are.  their market wasn't that good to begin with, because of the salt tax because they have high property taxes.

But I think we're going to see home sitting longer sellers getting motivated. I'll give you an example. Just four houses down there was a house that someone bought last May that all of a sudden is back up on the market and the listing says the seller is motivated.

I assume they owned a restaurant or something and now they're going Oh my god, we're in trouble. It was only, that's only, not even a year ago, it's about 11 months ago that they bought it.  all of a sudden they're up for sale. they've dropped the price twice already.

Not quite low enough where I need to be. But  next drop, I'll go knock on their door. we're going to see sellers who are motivated houses sitting longer, less demand, and that's not going to last I think forever, like it did the last turnaround lesson around was a good four to five years.

I think maybe we're looking at 18 months to two years, depending on the local market that you're in, before rebounds, because demand will come back.  with low supply,  prices will rebound again, but I think we're gonna see a lot of foreclosures, a lot of short sales, and a lot of people just walking away from their homes.

Taylor   7:49  

 It's unfortunate and I hate to see it but they are buying opportunities for those of us who are ambassadors and who are resourceful and I noticed Kind of what you're saying is focusing on kind of home sales, things like that. But,  people being unable to get financed and buy homes. For those of us that own rental real estate, that could be a very good thing. Yeah. But  there are risks in that too. sure, what do we need to think about t

Bill Bronchick  8:19  

ere? Well, landlords are going to start suffering some pain over the next few months as people are unable to pay their rent as unemployment starts jumping in, we're at about 12 and a half percent now. 

things look like they're probably going to double that by the time we're done. Maybe more.  That means you could end up with a 30% vacancy, if you have an apartment building which is painful. I know some landlords are looking at 80% vacancy because tenants are going on rent strikes, and using this as an excuse to not pay rent, and that's very painful. I'm lucky most of my stuff is single family and small multi unit and condos.

I'm getting like 7580 percent pay So far, we'll see what happens next month. In the short term, you're going to suffer as a landlord, because just getting rents from people who could pay, he can't evict anywhere yet, because the courts are shut down. if you can stockpile a little cash and buy up some deals, suffer through it a little bit, and then come out of the backside a year or two from now, you'll say, Wow, that was a good move.

Because I remember in 2009 2010, I was buying up rentals that I couldn't even break even on.  It was painful for a couple of years till about 2011 when the rental market started, started rebounding, and then of course by 2019 2020, everything had tripled in value. 

rents had gone up two and a half times. it was worth it, but it was a pain going through. If you're willing to go through those growing pains, I think there's an opportunity. I think it's right out of the art of war out of chaos comes opportu

Taylor   10:01  

ity. Well, it's true.  and this does all seem very temporary, but getting through it is going to be harder.  and like you said, Yeah, for those of us that already own or whatever, we need to stockpile cash, but what,  cash might not be enough all the time,  financing could get difficult things like that.

in a tough market,  getting the money, so you don't have it, what are strategies that people can use to continue acquire real estate if they're finding good deals, but they might not have all the money and maybe financing is kind of t

Bill Bronchick  10:38  

ugh? Well, they should be looking for motivated landlords who might be willing to just get out of the game and seller finance, do some sort of something creative with the landlord to where they're willing to carry the financing.  Then if you don't want to be a landlord and suffer through all this vacancy, there's going to be a pool of buyers who are financeable where you could sell properties to people, end up in the bank and carry owner financing.

Because if 25% of the population gets unemployed temporarily, that's a lot of people who's going to have credit hits who can't qualify for several years for a loan, there's going to be a huge niche out there for selling to buyers with creative  owner financing seller financing terms, where they're the owner and you're not a landlord anymore,  it's their responsibility to fix it and pay the taxes and so forth.

But if you can find someone who's back to work, who has a source of income, but they took a credit hit in the meantime and can't get a regular loan, that's someone you might be able to,  do some sort of owner financing with instead of being a land

Taylor   11:43  

ord. Okay, okay. Those are things we can look for. Now, I want to make sure that we get on to the wealth protection secrets of a millionaire real estate investor, your book title, and I think it's obviously a great topic.

I mean, we're in real estate. We want to protect Our wealth is that,  in your eyes is that more your protection from liability or downside protection and just a  dollar sense not necessarily legally re

Bill Bronchick  12:14  

ated legal taxes, liability, setting yourself up properly so that if things do go bad you limit your downside exposure and what a creditor like, let's say Bank of America wants to come after you for a loan, you defaulted on how successful they will be getting to what you have? The unfortunate part is, if you wait till you have trouble, it certainly doesn't work very well, because courts generally frown upon what they call fraudulent conveyances.

That means last minute transfers to avoid a creditor. It's really something to do preventative planning, like estate planning. You don't wait till you're on your deathbed to do your will. You do it when things are good and you're clearly thinking. Same thing with wealth protection.

You want to set your South up for minimum taxes maximum liability protection and in a way that you're hard to get to legally whether it be for a creditor a judgment an IRS lien a liability or you know as some variation thereof some other financial disaster divorce estate taxes so I wrote that book as a guide to real estate investors who need to protect themselves because  you see this mentality out there of greedy landlord if you own a property they think we're all monopoly man,  with smoking cigars and,  boardwalk and Park Place and just collecting rents every month with no mortgage, a no expenses, no taxes, no insurance,  and you see these groups turning around saying cancel rent, cancel rent,  what are we supposed to do as landlords we have expenses. A lot of landlords are retired people. They may own it free and clear, but that's their retirement other than their social Security. That's it.

Yeah, I was like, can't just eat it.  we're not all big, major corporations with big,  commercial buildings that we can afford to take that hit. 

Taylor   14:12  

Yeah, I don' get it. I mean, absolutely such a thing would absolutely annihilate a lot of people and  small people exactly like you said, people who retired depending on that income. as busy professionals and real estate investors, what, what are some of the mistakes that you see folks making who are investing in real estate, maybe on the side while they're working a job? From a protection standpoint, I mean, that people start with Alright, I'll form an LLC, and that'll protect me well, will it really and what do they need to do? Right, the next 

Bill Bronchick  14:49  

The first thing you need to do is if you do form an LLC retitle the property in the LLC, so people will form an LLC and collect rents, but they still have the property in their own name is luck. ability of owning the Property Plus Not to mention that no privacy at all, because someone can look up the landlord, even if you have a property manager, they could figure out who you are, where you live, and so forth.

I think there needs to be a couple of layers of privacy, liability protection,  giving a few hoops for someone to jump through as they want to find out who you are and what you're worth and how to get at,  get after you. It's the golden rule of law, He who has the gold gets sued. if you make it look like,  you're hard to get to, then you're going to filter out a lot of the,  the nonsense and the frivolous laws

Taylor   15:45  

its. Okay, and is there any, I've heard people talk about this, but,  I know you're in the space of self directed IRAs, things like that. Is there any asset protection that those afford us, as  we're using those to invest in Are Real Estate proj

Bill Bronchick  16:03  

cts. Well, there's two sides to the coin. IRAs 401 K's retirement plans are generally protected under federal ERISA law from creditor attachment. oj simpson is a prime example. $25 million judgment.

He still has an NFL pension they can't get. Wow. Um, so federally protected plans under ER is a ERISA law would protect and state law has protections for IRAs and 401Ks. However, if that IRA buys a property and rents it out, it as a landlord could get sued.

what I generally recommend people do in that situation is you can form an LLC that's owned by the IRA. the LLC takes the hit not the IRA takes the

Taylor   16:52  

hit. if your IRA hypothetically owns two LLC, S and LLC, a owns Property over there and LLC owns a property over the other way. Then if that say tenant first property, Sue's that LLC, then in principle that liability shouldn't transfer over to other as

Bill Bronchick  17:14  

ets, correct? Correct. That's the equity in that property that that LLC owns. splitting up the basket, not putting all your eggs in one basket. Some people put everything in one LLC, which will protect you, in most cases from personal liability. you can't necessarily lose your, your personal residence or your car, your bank account, but you can lose all your properties that way.

On the opposite end of the coin are people who have 72 properties and 72 LLC, which is also not a good idea because it's just wildly expensive, very hard to maintain, and probably wouldn't work in court anyway because you have to show separate bank accounts, separate accounting, separate books and so forth.

somewhere in between, now,  every three or four properties or so Have another LLC, depending on the value,  if we're talking about rural Oklahoma,  4050 hundred thousand dollar properties. He probably put four or five of them in one LLC in California, maybe two per

Taylor   18:12  

LLC. Hmm, okay, because I agree with that LLC s and all these things. It's an enormous administrative burden to keep everything straight and I can't imagine having 72 of them and separate at all 

Bill Bronchick  18:29  

ight now without a good CPA and two bookke

Taylor   18:33  

pers right, full time. That'd be brutal. Regarding potential liability from,  I think people, especially if they're buying individual properties in their IRA are not always careful about not providing a service to that IRA.

Right,  and key and prohibited transactions, all that does that open up potential,  personal liability. In addition to The IRS,  just potentially dissolving the IRA because of a prohibited transac

Bill Bronchick  19:05  

ion? No, not necessarily unless you do physical work that can expose you to personal liability. For example, first of all, as you suggested, you're not supposed to do any hard labor on behalf of your IRA, because that is a contribution of your services, Nexus contribution. You're allowed to do ministerial tasks or write checks. Collecting rents and paying mortgages is very minor stuff.

If you go and fix something in the property, which you're not supposed to do anyway, and someone is injured as a result of what you fixed wrong, then they can sue you personally, because you're the one who actually did the negligence. They can also sue if Sue re owns the property.

you're getting double whammy there. You're better off writing the check and hiring someone else and letting them sue the contractor and their liability. insurance will pick it up. For us, the property manager even better Let them take the liabi

Taylor   20:03  

ity. Okay. Okay.  I'm curious. I mean, you're This is a pretty hard topic shift. But you're a pretty active media figure. I mean, you've been in the media a lot.  I just, I would like to ask about that experience and what that's been like.

Because it seems like it kind of built over time, and it may or may not have been your goal in the first place.  it's not directly related to real estate, but we got a guy who's on TV a lot

Bill Bronchick  20:30  

 So, yeah, yeah, I was interviewed four times in the last month about, um, landlording stuff on the local news,  with people not paying rent liability for the COVID virus, and so forth up this Denver city issued a proclamation canceling rent, which is absolutely unenforceable, and then they threw it at the governor and said, Please issue an executive order and the governor who was a lawyer said, I can't do that even the President can do that.

A private contract between parties, the government doesn't have that authority, which,  I was glad he was smart enough to recognize, but the entire Denver City Council unanimously passed this resolution to show what knuckleheads they are and are ignorant of the Constitution. You can't take from private citizens without just compensation.

If they want to give us no property taxes for 10 years, fine, cancel the rent for three months, or six months, whatever. But you can't just say you don't have to pay your landlord on a private thing. Notice how they didn't say that to commercial landlords.  yes, I can't act in big some big company like Cushman and Wakefield is gonna,  is gonna take it,  without citing them in federal court over a constitutional ta

Taylor   21:42  

ing. Yeah, they know, they know their targets. have you found that to be like the main interest right now, at least as far as  the the broader concern is they're trying Yeah, take it out o

Bill Bronchick  21:55 

Yeah,  the next legislation sessions in May and in Colorado.  They are largely Democrat.  We have a very liberal Mayor to Governor rather than the city of Denver.  they're talking about rent control as a way to sort of help out tenants, like emergency rent control, where they're going to try to cut things to the bone to help out tenants.

I understand,  these people are suffering, but  don't make landlords suffer too, because then they can't pay the bank and you can't pay the bank, they're gonna foreclose and thrive as a tenant anyway. I don't know what they think they're accomplishing by all

Taylor   22:37  

his.  political theater. I mean, it seems clear to me that in a lot of areas, the market is going to have a pretty marked effect on market rents. I mean, if going back to before if 20% of people who were working or not working now, then the market  he's gonna adjust for that there's a pretty heavy demand s

Bill Bronchick  22:57  

ift. Yeah, I don't. I don't know where all these people We're gonna go, maybe they'll go to Kansas and live in a mobile home or something. But there's nowhere to go below a certain level in Denver, and most of my properties are in that level.

The problem is, I think what's going to happen is there'll be less demand because less people who can pay but then again,  people who are one step up and getting foreclosed, may take one step down to a place to read.

That's why as I mentioned earlier, those properties, those starter homes, the little ranches that were built in the 50s, through the 70s and 80s that are just not being built anymore are very hot commodities for an investor, because there's just no competition for that anymore. Where else can they go? We don't have  Denver where I am.

We don't have D class neighborhoods. We don't have ghettos, like they do in Detroit and places like that. Yeah.  see classes as low as it goes. There's nowhere to go from there. Except maybe A C class apart

Taylor   24:03  

ent.  you make a great point that,  really across the country, they're not building sterner, not anymore. No. Anyway

Bill Bronchick  24:11  

 no, those are always good investments because that sort of,  well blue collar working class neighborhood is it's not ghetto stuff. It's normal people with jobs in schools and  that they like to go to with their kids.  they're,  reasonably decent homes that you could rent out easily sell easily, because there's just limited supply of that s

Taylor   24:34  

uff. Absolutely. ,  this, this brings to another thing that I wanted to discuss with you is the investment investments that you're making, and you're pursuing right now.

I mean, you've seen a few market cycles by now and you can probably smell them coming. Yeah, by at this point.  moving forward, what are you investing in and what are you divesting from? How are you adjusting your strategy to deal with this market rea

Bill Bronchick  25:05  

ity. I'd like myself, I'm looking to pick up more of those starter homes, because I just think they're always a good hedge, they're going to be less volatile than more expensive Class B class stuff. this limited supply and whatever, I can get my hands on that stuff, I'm gonna keep buying it. I wouldn't touch an office with a 10 foot pole, not only because of what's going on, but I think there's going to be a fundamental shift in the tenant who's got a business with 15 employees, and an office suite going, Well,  do I really need this office suite? Or could I rotate my employees different days of the week and have a three Office suite and maybe two or three of these people I really don't realize I need anymore.  So I think what this has taught us staying home and people working at home is that it works to some extent and I forever Everybody or for every employee, or for a lot of businesses, they're re-evaluating and saying,  do I really need to renew this lease when it comes up? Do I really need this much space? Do I really need thi

Taylor   26:11  

 many offices? I think you're right. I absolutely agree. I mean, I think a lot of businesses out there are still stuck in that older mentality of needing that office space where they could really probably go to having people in the office two days a week and rotate that and rotate them out.  a lot of efficiencies or inefficiencies will be found as w

Bill Bronchick  26:33 

right. Yeah, right. That's why I feel really bad for people who are in office buildings right now, because not only people are not able to pay rent in the short term, but a lot of them will go out of business. there are vacancies that go up and a lot of th

Taylor   26:48  

m won't renew. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. in this last market cycle, Denver, he said before, about the demand in the market, and everything Denver has had a pretty enormous run up in the last decade, maybe a little more. I don't know the exact counts. But yeah, a lot of people have moved to Denver. Yeah, there's the rest of the country. Right. Do you think it's going to continue moving forward? And how does that really inform  what you're doing? And with your investments, I mean, you already tell us what assets you're investing in. But  that that will that market dynamic kind of s

Bill Bronchick  27:25  

ift in Denver. Denver's number one, and Colorado's number one, attraction is tourism. skiing, hiking lifestyle, so they're predicting a major expansion of population and they're and they're building to accommodate for it over the next 10 years.

Another area that I am hot on is micro apartments. I have been a partner and I've been looking for buildings to convert into a place to build a new one of the 300 400 square foot apartments that a millennial could live in.

It's big in Seattle. It's big in New York. It gets into Japan forever, right? Tiny, tiny little apartments. What's the new trend? Because you take 1000 square foot apartment that gets X dollars a month, you could break that up into two and a half apartments and end up getting not two and a half times, but probably clos

Taylor   28:23  

 two times. Wow, that's incredible. I'm surprised that that's gotten to Denver, but it's just a supply and demand based thin

Bill Bronchick  28:31  

, right? Yeah. Yeah, there's two big buildings downtown that are being built like that. With hundred 75 square foot efficiencies with Murphy beds. Wow. I mean,  a 30 year old millennial,  your 25 year old,  is who doesn't spend much time at home. eating out most of the time going out most of the time. That's just the place to crash

Taylor   28:53  

. Yeah, as a millennial, my 30 year old self has been stuck at home for a month. My Whatever 900 square feet  is not enough to give you the 75 yeah

Taylor   29:07  

oh my goodness but if it if the price makes sense then I can sign w

Bill Bronchick  29:14  

y'd you do it? Right and they're usually pretty nicely done places they're a class um and they are very well done very efficient space but you know 30 to 40% less read one q

Taylor   29:29  

arter the size wow that is that is wild I guess you know if the if the market dictates are those being built as apartments or 

Bill Bronchick  29:39  

condo complexes so far just as apartments New York's got condos of those o

Taylor   29:44  

 nature. Wow. Once again, it goes back to the market. Now out in that area. One of the assets we talked about on the show with some frequency is mobile home parks.  Those are popular in some areas, especially when you go wide open spaces. Mm hmm that factor into the Denver

Bill Bronchick  30:04  

market at all. Now they've pretty much cleared out most of the mobile home parks and redevelop that there's not much in Denver in southern Colorado in some of the more rural areas there's there's there's some still some parks left then the some of the smaller cities Denver pretty much cleared them all there's a handful of pockets small ones here and there but but there's just the land is too valuable for that type of use, not at highest and best use but I do like mobile home parks. They're very good cap rates.

There's a certain person that's going to rent a mobile home and they have to live somewhere and  they're much bigger in Texas and Florida and places like in the south. They tend to be magnets for tornadoes. I don't know why but right. Whenever you watch it,  a tornado goes through it.

It always went through a mobile home park. But they can be very good cash cows and very,  you don't have to worry about a building and plumbing and things like that you have to have roads and you have to have sewer lines and you have to have water and electricity. But other than that, there's,  it's just a matter of breaking up the fig

Taylor   31:24  

ts between the Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I haven't invested in any.  I'm always curious how that has shifted in, in some of these markets that have really blown up particularly,  throughout the Midwest and where right left, so yeah, cool.

Right now, we're gonna take a quick break for our sponsor. All right, Bill, I've got three questions. I asked every guest on the show. Are you ready? I'm ready. Great. First one, what is the best investment you've ever made other than in 

Bill Bronchick  31:55  

our education? That's an excellent supposition in that question. Education has been my best investment that I say is the property, I bought my IRA in 2010. I converted it to a Roth because there was a window and there's a window.

Now again, by the way, folks, you have three years to pay the taxes if you do a conversion, when did the cares act? So it's a great time to do a conversion if you haven't done it. But I've got a Roth IRA and I got two Roth IRAs and my wife has got an IRA.

we have three Roth IRAs that we bought a bunch of properties in, in 2008 2009 2010 that have exploded in value in rents, and will be some tremendous retirement income tax free. So

Taylor   32:40  

I'd say that's nice that tax advantaged accounts when again,  yeah,

Bill Bronchick  32:45  

they're great. Yeah.  our goal is just live off that income and then just leave it to the kids and they'

Taylor   32:51  

l do the same. Nice. On the other side of that we had the best investment. Now that we get to the other side of the coin, the worst investment what is the worst investment y

Bill Bronchick  33:04  

u ever made. I tried to do an infomercial once. Yeah, I learned for $85,000 how to make an inf

Taylor   33:15  

merc

Bill Bronchick  33:17  

al for 20 Wow. I got ripped off by about 65,000 and it bombed  we tested it

and it bombed. It was just that there was wrong timing in the market or whatever wrong product. It was in 2009 and it was a playoff for one of my books on how to sell a house fast in a slow real estate market.

But it was a little early and people weren't motivated enough so the product was too early and it tested poorly. I never just let it go. But I learned for $85,000 how you can make an infomercial

Taylor   33:48  

l for about 20 Wow, what was your What was your like campaign size or where did you kind of air these

Bill Bronchick  33:55  

target markets not rendering time in four or five cities on Different cable channels,  any HGTV DIY network and things like that,  we just we just spent about 20, grand,  testing in various markets and the numbers were so poor that we just, we ju

Taylor   34:16  

t bagged that. Wow. were there any other lessons you learned in that, like related to the production or something like that? Or was it just completely, like, Miss timed,  ki

Bill Bronchick  34:29  

d of going up? It was at this time that it was on my part, but in terms of what I spent, and I looked at what was provided, I said, I could do this myself next time for 20. far, it took me 85,000 to figure out how to make one for 20.

Taylor   34:44  

Wow.  I bet  if you reassess that now, you might even bring that 20 down 

Bill Bronchick  34:49  

o five or six. Right, right, right. Yeah. Well, you need to pay the people in the audience

Bill Bronchick  34:58  

Yeah, my favorite part of the whole thing was in the original budget that was 5000 for catering, and it was about 15 people working there and they w

nted in pizza. T

Taylor   35:14  

it was $5,000. Man, you could have had a professional chef come and make that pizza for money. Bring his own everything. Wow. My favorite question here at the end of the show is what is the most important lesson that you've learned in business and investing?

Bill Bronchick  35:32  

Wow, the best I've so many, but everything is a learning experience. There really are no failures. Certainly, I've made bad investments done dumb things that I regret. But I really don't regret it because everything was a learning experience that got me to where I am now. If life happened any differently, I may not be where I am now.

Everything I think considers every experience is something that benefits me and it's here for my learning experience, whether it may be perceived in the short term as good or bad, what can I learn from this experience? And if you approach your business in your life that way, then you're neve

Taylor   36:11  

 disappointed. Wow, I really appreciate that particularly in light of your answer to the last question. I mean, that is a pretty considerable amount of money to lose on a business venture. But and a lot of people  net worth aside would just be devastated by losing that money and really any investment but if you look at it as a learning opportunity that's going to further you and make you better in the end, then, I guess I think that enables you to move on and get to the next thing and and make more investments in the

Bill Bronchick  36:47  

future. Right.  It makes me willing to try new things and I'm constantly trying new things in my business and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, but I just considered it a learning experience. What doesn't work. just figured out one more way that that  not invent 

Taylor   37:03  

the light bulb? Yeah, that's true, very Thomas Edison way of looking at things. I love that. Bill. Thank you for joining us today and teaching us about things that we can do in difficult markets, what it's like to be a media figure, and some of the moves that folks can make today in this type of market. if folks want to learn more about you and they want to get in touch, where can they find you? 

Bill Bronchick  37:26  

They can go to my website at legalwiz.com 

Taylor   37:31  

legalwiz.com  great, love it. Thanks again for joining us to everybody out there. Thank you for tuning in. If you're enjoying the show, please leave us a rating and review on Apple podcasts very much appreciated, helps other people learn about the show, you know anyone who could use a little bit more passive wealth in their lives, please share the show with them and bring them into the tribe. Thank you for tuning in once again. Hope you have a great day and a great rest of your week.  we'll talk to you the next one